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  1. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/10/2010 12:53pm

    supporting member
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FolkTheory View Post
    Neither the words "god" nor "creator" are mentioned in the constitution. check for yourself: http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
    Actually, he did state it "creator" was referenced in the Federalist Papers
      #31
  2. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/10/2010 12:57pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ****, I forgot to reply to Rafe.

    Rafe, my personal stance on the Second amendment is that, regardless of the politics that have grown out of its existence, I'm grateful for the freedom it provides.

    The right of self-defense is similarly engulfed in politics, but the real beauty of the Second Amendment is this: I felt the need to own a weapon in case I'm ever put in mortal danger, and the law of the land allowed me to purchase what I decided best suits my needs.
    Last edited by Robstafarian; 3/10/2010 1:19pm at . Reason: corrected a typo
    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    cuz FastPass on Indiana Jones was like being a ghetto rock star.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiko
    But graffiti isn't a bowl of fruit...
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstafarian View Post
    Merely insulting you is not an ad hominem fallacy: them calling you an idiot would be ad hominem if they said "You are an idiot, therefore your argument is invalid."

    What is instead happening is thus:
    1. Your argument is bullshit.
    2. You keep repeating, and expanding upon, your argument.
    3. Therefore, you are an idiot.

    That isn't an ad hominem fallacy; that's inductive reasoning.
      #32
  3. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/10/2010 12:59pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    Actually, he did state it "creator" was referenced in the Federalist Papers
    Mark mentioned the Federalist Papers after what FolkTheory was addressing, hence the quote.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    cuz FastPass on Indiana Jones was like being a ghetto rock star.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiko
    But graffiti isn't a bowl of fruit...
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstafarian View Post
    Merely insulting you is not an ad hominem fallacy: them calling you an idiot would be ad hominem if they said "You are an idiot, therefore your argument is invalid."

    What is instead happening is thus:
    1. Your argument is bullshit.
    2. You keep repeating, and expanding upon, your argument.
    3. Therefore, you are an idiot.

    That isn't an ad hominem fallacy; that's inductive reasoning.
      #33
  4. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/10/2010 1:01pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robstafarian View Post
    Mark mentioned the Federalist Papers after what FolkTheory was addressing, hence the quote.
    Ah. Missed that. Thanks.

    All we need is Cullion referencing Secret Societies/Freemasonry/New World Order/Bilderberg and PoopLoops claiming everyone but him is a "retard" and we have a nice little Sociocide thread here
      #34
  5. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/10/2010 1:15pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    All we need is Cullion referencing Secret Societies/Freemasonry/New World Order/Bilderberg and PoopLoops claiming everyone but him is a "retard" and we have a nice little Sociocide thread here
    I am afraid it's all my fault.

    Phrost, is that inter-site moderation working yet? While I have your attention, sorry for fucking up this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    cuz FastPass on Indiana Jones was like being a ghetto rock star.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiko
    But graffiti isn't a bowl of fruit...
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstafarian View Post
    Merely insulting you is not an ad hominem fallacy: them calling you an idiot would be ad hominem if they said "You are an idiot, therefore your argument is invalid."

    What is instead happening is thus:
    1. Your argument is bullshit.
    2. You keep repeating, and expanding upon, your argument.
    3. Therefore, you are an idiot.

    That isn't an ad hominem fallacy; that's inductive reasoning.
      #35
  6. Vorpal is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/10/2010 1:21pm

    Join us... or die
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It always strikes me funny that the same people on the left who kick and scream at the idea of someone in the evil government reading an emailed peach cobbler recipe that they got from Aunt Edna believe that the same government is so beneficent that it's safe to entrust them as the sole entity with access to firearms. Can't wrap my brain around that one.
      #36
  7. Shamash is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/10/2010 1:24pm


     Style: ex-Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix View Post
    For squad tactics maybe, but average citizen knows anything about squad tactics? There would be no call for an average citizen to be packing an M249 or any other SAW, unless of course they were properly trained in its use and maintenance.

    And I am pretty sure the 7.62 round of an AK packs more than enough power to drop game cleanly, as does a good compound bow does. I am well aware of what the difference are between what is considered an "assault weapon" and what is not. Most of the populace on the other hand, do not. And I am well aware of the power of the average deer rifle. Is that the reason why the US military uses weapons that chamber those rounds for sniper rifles?

    And when I said what I did, I was referring to what most people view as their rights with the 2nd Amendment. Most Americans, including myself admittedly, do not understand the 2nd Amendment. Most feel that they should be able to own whatever weapon they see fit, even if it ISN'T for home or state defence. They see that they NEED a BAR to hunt Bambi, or a Barrett to go Turkey hunting. That is what I was going for in my post.
    The 7.62x39 mm ak round is in most cases not suitable for hunting. As far as power, its in the same approximate class as a 30-30, however; there are many other factors to consider. To begin with many sks rifles lack the accuracy for serious large game hunting if you expect to be taking long shots. Secondly most 7.62 ammunition is fmj which is not ideal for hunting. Third the biggest game I would hunt with 7.62 would be a whitetail deer. It just isn't powerful enough to use on Bears, Elk, or Moose. In my opinion the .223 round just isn't big enough for any big game hunting. As phrost previously mentioned, most states prohibit the .223 for big game hunting due to ethical reasons.

    The common sniper rifle caliber you alluded to above is usually a bolt action .308. In that case yes a .308 will definately take any game in North America.
      #37
  8. DarkPhoenix is offline
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    I feel like you eyeballin' me, dawg!

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    Posted On:
    3/10/2010 1:26pm


     Style: Judo, JJJ, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamash View Post
    The 7.62x39 mm ak round is in most cases not suitable for hunting. As far as power, its in the same approximate class as a 30-30, however; there are many other factors to consider. To begin with many sks rifles lack the accuracy for serious large game hunting if you expect to be taking long shots. Secondly most 7.62 ammunition is fmj which is not ideal for hunting. Third the biggest game I would hunt with 7.62 would be a whitetail deer. It just isn't powerful enough to use on Bears, Elk, or Moose. In my opinion the .223 round just isn't big enough for any big game hunting. As phrost previously mentioned, most states prohibit the .223 for big game hunting due to ethical reasons.

    The common sniper rifle caliber you alluded to above is usually a bolt action .308. In that case yes a .308 will definately take any game in North America.
    Thanks for the info. I would never use a 5.56 round for hunting anything short of a rabbit. It sure does a helluva lot of damage to humans though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    BJJ JOE: I'm going to make hate to you. Right here, right now.
    ... Ohhhhhhhh, I'm going to make hate to you so hard that your kinfolk back in Africa will feel it.l
    Quote Originally Posted by Archer
    Karate is the Dane Cook of martial arts
      #38
  9. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/10/2010 1:46pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FMA, Ego Warrior

    --
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix View Post
    Thanks for the info. I would never use a 5.56 round for hunting anything short of a rabbit. It sure does a helluva lot of damage to humans though.
    Can't properly kill anything bigger than a rabbit, but it destroys a man? What? (BTW, .223 is a popular round for Coyote, and similarly built animals. Though consenssus is, it should not be used against anything bigger or tougher than white tail deer, which is similar to a petite human in mass and physiology.)

    Dude, no offense, but just stop talking about guns and gun culture as if you have any idea what you're saying.

    Meet some "responsible" gun owners, learn about weapons, learn about hunting, shoot some targets, shoot some skeet, maybe even an animal if your hungry enough to eat it, and respectful enough to do it legally and humanely. Then read some Jeff Cooper, Massad Ayoob, and Thomas Jefferson, and then start posting.

    As somebody who takes this stuff seriously, your "assumptions" of weapons, tactics, a sporting hunt, and those of us on this side of the debate kind of give me a headache.

    Please, really educate yourself, and you might even come around to this side of the table. I did.
      #39
  10. searcher66071 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/10/2010 2:21pm


     Style: Karate-knockdown, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As has already been pointed out. The second ammendment is what seperates citizens from subjects. I cherish my rights to defend myself from those who would do harm to myself or my loved ones AND against those that would make me into a subject. As far as what guns are covered, all firearms should be available to the average citizen. The second ammendment has little to do with us defending ourselves from petty thugs and the everyday crime that life has and it has more to do with the people being able to defend themselves from a corrupt government.
      #40
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