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  1. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Quote Originally Posted by chainpunch View Post

    It was actually my question. Thanks for answering I have a better idea of what you think is fair and what society you look to and admire.

    Those countries do have a high standard of living in comparison to most other countries. So if you like it very hard to be rich and live comparable to the man next to you they are great places. But in those countries only rich people have cars. The tax rate on autos is 150%. Combined tax rate for the wealthy is 90% which is not going to kill "old money" but if you want to be rich its near impossible for someone of no means to accumulate wealth.

    I think these countries have harmony more so because of the people rather than the system. Its common for them to know 5 languages, be mindful of their fellow human and have fully auto weapons in their home. I think the culture promotes harmony and they would do well under any system of government.
    You misunderstand. I do not "admire" any Scandinavian country. I just said that the standard of living was generally higher.

    Case in point: This is my friend Nicke
    YouTube- MAKE UP Blooper

    He's a soap actor, movie star, and TV host. The Finnish equivalent of, say, George Clooney. His lifestyle would be considered maybe upper middle class by American standards. He owns an ATV(!)
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
      #191
  2. Hooded Justice is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude View Post
    Oh. Okay :qbluewack

    [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics"]

    Yeah... I'd like to do something to rectify that... perhaps when the American people are more concerned with THE GOOD over THE LEGAL, things will change...
    I am there with you. I still don't understand how they have these rules of ethics and politicians are occasionally called out on violating them but they are not laws or anything that actually gets someone fired for breaking. Kind of like an impeached president isn't actually forced out of office. Seems there are a lot of "slap on the wrist" rules for politicians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude View Post
    Why are you asking me? I'm an English Lit/Linguistics & Philosophy major, not Law. Go ask one of the Lawyers in Residence, or do your own homework....
    Oh come on now. I am sure you can know that was an open question to everyone and not just you. I still would love to know the legalise behind denying a felon their 2nd amendment rights. It seems like something the ACLU would have been all over to fight against but maybe even they aren't fans of criminals hehe.

    Cy Q. Faunce - I was assuming the boston question had something to do with population density but I didn't want to respond to that and be wrong. I think you get my point though that while there were concentrations of population I don't think I would be incorrect in assuming that there was a decent percentage of the population that still worked and lived on farms and plantations. I assumed that if you owned a cannon you would want to fire it and while I don't know what kind of min max range they have it seems that it would be enough to make firing it in a city even back then would be unsafe. I could very well be wrong it just seems logical to me.
      #192
  3. Kintanon is offline
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    Posted On:
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    It is not necessary to make it illegal to own an item in order to make it illegal to do something stupid and dangerous with it.
    I can own alcohol, and I can own a car, I can not use both at the same time.

    Making it illegal to fire your AK within the city limits isn't the same as making it illegal to own an AK.
      #193
  4. chainpunch is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice View Post
    Yes I have been to mexico and canada and across america. When you have no money and no home then it doesn't matter what country you fucking live in does it? Oh are you saying americans throw away higher quality food for them to ravage the dumpsters for? Yes if money circulates through a regulated sytem everyone benefits but when 1% control 95% of the wealth our circulatory system is having a fucking heart attack.


    In the US a poor uneducated person has the highest chance to make it. Sky is just about the limit. The opportunities are the greatest here and regardless how one feels about this country most all acknowledge this fact. You seem to have this idea that just a very few are keeping the majority down. The wealthiest people give hordes of money to good causes of their own accord. There are exceptions to every case but by in large we are the most generous nation on the earth. The idea that you are poor and have little opportunity because 1% of the country is trying to suppress you is complete horseshit! This argument against the rich is nothing but jealously and envy. If you are poor and have no food to eat you will be fed in this country both government and private entities will gladly help those that make an effort to at least show up at their door.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice View Post
    The fact that I live in "the wealthiest and most technologically advanced country in the world" and yet getting sick or hurt can financially ruin me unlike in say Canada, England, Sweden you know places that understand a healthy population can work and contribute. This is what I damn about our system. That PROFITS>PEOPLE is the business montra is what I damn. That you support a system that obviously doesn't give a **** about you if you don't have enough money is what I damn. That you see no problem in people starving because they don't have enough paper that is backed by a hollow promise that the govt will cover the bill is my problem with your "most rational" system. I wasn't specifically pro socialism but you aren't making the best case for capitalism dude. .


    You just exaggerate your claims. In this country you can get free health care through Medicaid/ Social Security. There are safety nets in place. Life is very unfair its like this way naturally. Complete utopia will lead to depression and degeneration. Everyone needs to have motivation to survive, when everything is taken care of for us this leads to complacency. Life is supposed to suck if you are not doing well at it, this should lead you to strive to improve your situation. I am not really pro-anything besides freedom. The function of capitalism is essentially pure freedom. Its not profits over people its human nature to put self interest over others. Once you feel secure you can then take care of your fellow man. The problem with socialism is that someone else dictates what you should be comfortable with. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.. I have no problem with this statement but who is the arbiter?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice View Post
    No they don't and who do you think should be better paid? The people teaching the next generation that will take care of you when you're old? Or the people entertaining the next generation? Why are defense budgets almost never cut but education almost always is? Seriously educated masses are the key to advancement and the the obvious dumbing down of the next generation is not helping us out at all..


    In nations with less resources education get less money but they often have better results. Its not a money issue its cultural, acceptable standards and motivation or disctration of the students.

    Defense cant be compromised. Understand to not be killed overrides healthcare, education, food everything. Education is often never cut its that the bureaucrats waste money and are always squandering and expecting increasing higher funding. Schools in the Midwest produce much smarter kids on average with less money its not about money.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice View Post
    Yes yes they do live better. That is inherent in the definition of a fairer country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice View Post



    I have said it before. If you have an economic system that allows for a concentration of wealth then at least apply a tax that can be used to offset that and aid the poor class that inevitably happens as a result of the rich. Explain to me how 1% of the population can control 95% of the wealth and the remaining 99% of the population can survive on 5% of the wealth? And follow me on this. CEO gets a large salary drawn from company. If the company makes more money he has more money to award himself. The company makes more money by raising the price of the goods it trades. The person paying that price is you. So YOU pay a higher price so that THE BUSINESS can make more profits and justify giving THE EXECUTIVE CLASS more money for NOT PROVIDING MORE OR BETTER SERVICE. ..
    In the US poor people have cars, some more than one. Poor people can get free rent free healthcare and food plus living expenses. Have you ever been to the project? You will see cable tv cable or satellite dishes everywhere. In Mexico you cant put toilet paper in the toilet because their system cant handle it. In Canada its against the law to charge for healthcare so why do people come by the truck loads and pay money for our expensive care? Maybe they dont want to wait weeks for an x-ray or maybe they feel that if they have the money they want a better chance to live. Greedy, selfish bastards.

    I think you biased your reason on emotion rather than facts.
    http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html
    The top 10% pay 70% of the income tax. The top 1% pays 40% of the tax burden but only makes 22% of the income. People under 33k are considered poor and somewhere un 25k these people pay no fed taxes if they have dependants. The top 50% pay 97+% of all the taxes. So roughly half of us pay taxes for the other half. Your right this is an unfair system.

    BTW tax rate is not the same as economic model. One could have a high or low tax rate and Government owed industries or private owned business with the high or low rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice View Post
    As pointed out above it is you the consumer that finances their salaries by paying a higher than necessary price for goods. Support your local businesses that's what I say. Notice how mom and pop places usually try and give better service and usually don't have as many lazy idiots working for them? At least in my experiences...


    Of course the consumer pays but its higher than necessary because you are willing to pay for it. No one forces you to pay. Every time a hot product comes out people pay then what?, its not hot anymore so the price drops. Dont buy overpriced crap! Mom and pop treat you better because its their vested interest. The lazy slacker at best buy does not give a rats ass about how good a job he does its not capitalism at fault its that the people with vested interest in the successor the company are far removed. Just the the DMV, Who the hell thinks government service is great. It sucks balls because their job is even less dependent on customer satisfaction; you have no choice in the matter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice View Post
    The above statement is so absurdly idiotic that after this post I refuse to reply to you anymore. Please point to one dictatorship that was peaceful in coming to, staying in and or exercising, and leaving power. I am sure the hundreds of thousands of people that died under Saddam all felt it was a peaceful process. Seriously. **** YOU!...


    You were the one that nitpicked about Dictators not having a civil society. Why just Dictators? Theocracy (IRAN), Monarchy (William the Conqueror), Communism, (Vietnam killed 2 million they took over S Vietnam). All these systems can be brutal but they operate in relative calm and set up a sense or order. You think Iraq is more calm now or pre Sadam than with Sadam? 20 million people died in WW2 if we did not resist you think NATZI's would have killed anywhere near that number? Dictators want peace just at the expense of your freedom.

    I am not advocating any of this crap by the way so stop trying to imply I support issues and examples I use.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice View Post
    HOLY FUCKING ****! ok The fact that there are non capitalist nations on earth that legally allow gun ownership shows that capitalism isn't the only system compatible with owning a firearm and the fact that you currently cannot own absolutely any firearm you want proves that capitalism doesn't fit your bill either by your own measurements because capitalism regulates industry in varying degrees.
    I said truly compatible. You can be incompatible with someone and still marry them it just will be a much harder relationship. Stop exaggerating everything. Yes most there are some countries with a slightly repressive framework and it works out ok. I think culture has a lot to do with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice View Post
    Second CAPITALISM AND SOCIALISM ARE SYSTEMS OF ECONOMIC THEORY THEY ARE NOT IN AND OF THEMSELVES SYSTEMS OF GOVERNMENT!!! The form of government is determined in how its leaders are chosen not how it finances its workings.



    You are not completely correct. Socialism is a theory of worker owned or collective decision-making, and public control of productive industry so there is a government element in control and implementation. Governing is not just how you are represented but also how law and rules are implemented and executed.

    If government took over gun manufacturing I can see that as being a direct threat to the people
      #194
  5. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    Wealth is actually about as contrary to fitness in a Darwinian sense as you can get, used by manicured investment bankers to ensure their near sighted, pencil-necked offspring never encounter an environment where their genetic soundness will be tested in any way. Or worse, to lavish fertility treatments on their sterile mates, ensuring the transmission of the only genetic trait in the universe ruled intransmissible by the laws of logic themselves: Infertility.
    aren't you some kind of biologist or something? I thought you understood evolution better than this.

    If you don't NEED to be big and strong, being big and strong is just a waste of cell divisions, water, and fuel. He who raises the most children and provides that they follow suit is the most "genetically sound" - it's all that really matters. If you were more "genetically sound" than all those suits, you'd be beating them at the game, and if you ARE - then you're just grousing because they have money.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
      #195
  6. JohnnyCache is offline
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    chainpunch: do you really believe the bootstrapping opportunities are best in this country? Vs, say, one of the highly progressive governments in western Europe where your family standing has almost nil to do with your educational potential?
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
      #196
  7. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce View Post
    Wrong how? I don't argue that the population density is the same now as then.
    My bad. What was your actual point about Boston?
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
      #197
  8. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2010 1:41pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache View Post
    aren't you some kind of biologist or something?
    Of a sort, yes.

    I thought you understood evolution better than this.
    I understand it just fine.

    If you don't NEED to be big and strong, being big and strong is just a waste of cell divisions, water, and fuel. He who raises the most children and provides that they follow suit is the most "genetically sound" - it's all that really matters.
    Let's be clear here: We're not talking about Evolution; We're talking about natural selection. Biologic evolution is the genetic process behind speciation; Natural selection is the process by which genetic change in an individual is biased towards meeting the demands of the environment.

    If you were more "genetically sound" than all those suits, you'd be beating them at the game
    It's their game.

    And here we get down to the rotton egg at the bottom of our dustbin: That those who have collected more currency are demonstrating some sort of fittness. As if Bill Gates were one thousand times smarter than Ed Witten (or even half as smart). As if Patty Hearst,, or Dougie Kenedy, or Amschel Mayor James Rothschild (late of France, grand patron motor racing) recieved their wealth through any doing, action or characteristic of their own.

    My point is that absurd amounts of money insulate the people who have them from the demands of the environment. Money can completely insulate you from the consequences of inferior traits. Evolution without meaningful selction is like MA without aliveness. It's the connection to reality that make it such an important player in the adaptation of organisms to the demands of the world. Evolution without natural selection is mere heredity.

    Money is not fittness, money is the power to destroy. The inheritence that most impacts your chances to survive and reproduce is more likely to have an executor than a nucleotide code.

    It's called natural selection, not synthetic selection. And it's called that for A REASON.
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 3/13/2010 1:44pm at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
      #198
  9. chainpunch is offline

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    [QUOTE=JohnnyCache;2330748]chainpunch: do you really believe the bootstrapping opportunities are best in this country? Vs, say, one of the highly progressive governments in western Europe where your family standing has almost nil to do with your educational potential?

    I don't really know how you figure family standing is related to education potential? Obama came from nothing and graduated harvard. Of course if you come from means you have an advantage but in this country we give advanatges to underdogs and punish discrimination.there are nunerous possibilites and chances to be US educated but as in life you often can't get anything without effort.

    I admit I am more experiance with business conditions rather than educational ones. I know education is hard work anyplace you live and this is the land of oppurtunity but any hopefully will never be known as the land of "free rides"
      #199
  10. Cy Q. Faunce is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    My bad. What was your actual point about Boston?
    That there's no place in old Boston where it'd be safe to fire a cannon. Every road is a twisting cow path. Even at the lower population density you cite, Boston was not the Wyoming-like place HJ likes to think it was.
      #200

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