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  1. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar

    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2010 12:04am

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    a bit of Latosa from DTT

    I made this back in 2006 and have had it on private for "Family only" over at Youtube. I just made it public and I am sharing it here first. Why? because it is too boring in here (here meaning: FMA Trad. Threads)!!!!

    This is short clips of Rene Latosa demonstrating what he calls "suppressed hitting". I played around with it using my slo motion feature. With Suppressed hitting he is contracting all the muscles in a hit, but suppressing the extension. It might be like an isometric exercise, since you work the extension muscles against their antagonists.

    YouTube- Rene Latosa Miami, 2006

    It is mostly a timing and positioning exercise based on visual reactions, so the contact portion doesn't need to risk injury. It is also low intensity so you can do many reps in short time frames or better many, many reps over a few hours with out becoming exhausted. Since it is working visual reactions not power, it is safer to be suppressed. We do it stick against stick, so imagine Rene has a stick in his hands......
    Last edited by Dr._Tzun_Tzu; 3/07/2010 12:11am at .

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  2. jspeedy is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2010 9:50pm


     Style: FMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    dammit! Embedding disabled. Wish i'd seen this one earlier.
  3. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2010 7:56pm

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jspeedy View Post
    dammit! Embedding disabled. Wish i'd seen this one earlier.
    Embedding fixed, just for you.......

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  4. jspeedy is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/07/2010 11:00pm


     Style: FMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu View Post
    Embedding fixed, just for you.......
    aww how nice of you!

    In judging the vid I'm sure most here will pull the "more compliant bs" card. But by realizing it's only intended to be a drill the clip is actually interesting if you know what you're looking at.
  5. Gulogod is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2010 10:08am


     Style: Suntukaran

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I guess its a matter of taste. I'd rather do a thousand reps of solo basic drills that include that "contraction" anyways.
  6. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2010 10:32am

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     Style: Recovery-Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jspeedy View Post
    aww how nice of you!

    In judging the vid I'm sure most here will pull the "more compliant bs" card. But by realizing it's only intended to be a drill the clip is actually interesting if you know what you're looking at.
    Anything subtle involving the body mechanics has been exposed by aggressive editing and repetition so I have to assume you are just trolling .


    DTT,

    What exactly are you doing ?

    Are you trying to justify not sparring with contact ?

    Are you just masturbating with video software and D&B ?

    Were you sharing those four or five specific techniques ?

    I am honestly confused as to what you are doing here because dead prescripted "you do this, then I do that and you react or freeze like this" drills ... with or without sticks is still 2 step sparring . You can get dead stick drills in most TKD places .

    Those techniques make some pretty big assumptions ...
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  7. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2010 2:33pm

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It was a seminar so this is edited clips from Rene's lecture.

    Quote Originally Posted by jspeedy View Post
    aww how nice of you!

    In judging the vid I'm sure most here will pull the "more compliant bs" card. But by realizing it's only intended to be a drill the clip is actually interesting if you know what you're looking at.
    Ya, though without armor, I am not sure how to train safely with weapons unless there is some "compliant" aspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gulogod View Post
    I guess its a matter of taste. I'd rather do a thousand reps of solo basic drills that include that "contraction" anyways.
    We do that to. LWS uses a whole range of drills and partner exercises that each focus on one aspect and remove some others for safety. This is visual reactions to body language followed by suppressed contact. The drill partner freezes so you can target the suppressed hits, or they sometimes move to a new position between hits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backfistmonkey View Post
    DTT,

    What exactly are you doing ?
    Posting a video showing Rene Latosa moving around suppressing hits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backfistmonkey View Post
    what you trying to justify not sparring with contact ?
    It is not a sparring video and makes no references to sparring. However, you are welcome to show us some stick sparring without armor as a contrast if you think that is a valuable way to train visual reactions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backfistmonkey View Post
    Are you just masturbating with video software and D&B ?
    I was when I made it maybe, back in 2006.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backfistmonkey View Post
    Were you sharing those four or five specific techniques ?
    Just showing Rene's movement style and the suppressed hits concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backfistmonkey View Post
    I am honestly confused as to what you are doing here because dead prescripted "you do this, then I do that and you react or freeze like this" drills ... with or without sticks is still 2 step sparring . You can get dead stick drills in most TKD places .
    David was not told to, "freeze like this". He stops because he is beat and to continue would not be reflective of what would happen with the hit making contact. Rene might have told him what to do for the demo here, but in the drill the other player can do any attack they choose, randomly, and you practice closing and striking the arms and neck, not his stick. Thus it is suppressed, unless you like getting hit on the arms and head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backfistmonkey View Post
    Those techniques make some pretty big assumptions ...
    Care to elaborate? or can I make assumptions about the assumptions you have about Rene's assumptions?...;-) really though I assume you were waiting for my response before continuing.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  8. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2010 3:17pm

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     Style: Submission Grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    DTT can you explain how WT picked up the Escrima? Is that just Emin or Ting's doing? It's kind of an eccentric combination. Well, normal by JKD standards, just weird for a _Chun org.
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  9. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2010 7:10pm

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    DTT can you explain how WT picked up the Escrima? Is that just Emin or Ting's doing? It's kind of an eccentric combination. Well, normal by JKD standards, just weird for a _Chun org.
    Actually it started with Kernspecht in Germany. Ting never liked it.

    Rene was the first filipino to teach FMA on the East Coast and then over in England while he was in the military. Bill Newman became his British PMAS guy, this is back in the very early 1970's. Keith Kernspecht was part of the Budo Kiel in Germany that brought in and developed any martial art they could, and that is how he found Leung Ting and later invited Bill Newman and Rene Latosa, around/before 1976.

    It takes far to long in Wing Tsun to learn the weapons, but some of the weapons based techniques are needed before that. Latosa Escrima was developed by Kernspecht, Newman, and Rene to be learned by WT people starting at around the fifth student grade to fill in this gap. Latosa has also taught other people and other organizations, but along the way he created Latosa Concepts which is for any MA to use. Rene joked with us one time that he doesn't have the patience for beginners anymore, so ALL of his students come from other arts and are generally brown belts and above.

    Wing Tsun et al is by far where most of his students have come from though, again mostly in Europe. They have had a tournament league over there even. We work them as polar opposites, a kind of dualism around the theme of attack forward. But in the long run escrima is empty hand and very much like WT and WT develops double daggers and long pole like FMA. When I actually trained hard everyday doing both, I found that in sparring something in the middle came out, though that "middle" was not something I directly practiced. The irony was that it "looked" like JKD!!!

    However, the Europeans made forms and other stuff Rene didn't find necessary and when the split between KK and Boztepe happened some bad bullshit happened and Rene resigned from EWTO and became exclusively with EBMAS for several years. Boztepe's Self Defense program is a combination, we use escrima weapon attacks in WT to practice disarms/counters against, and the chi sau reactions carry over to weapons( i.e bong to fak is the same as roof block to #2 strike).

    It is very nice that the 2 curricula have been developed together for a couple decades and thus synergize so well.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  10. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2010 11:14pm

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     Style: Recovery-Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu View Post

    We do that to. LWS uses a whole range of drills and partner exercises that each focus on one aspect and remove some others for safety. This is visual reactions to body language followed by suppressed contact. The drill partner freezes so you can target the suppressed hits, or they sometimes move to a new position between hits.
    So the drill is usually a bit more open ended then ?

    Cool, I can dig that .

    It is not a sparring video and makes no references to sparring. However, you are welcome to show us some stick sparring without armor as a contrast if you think that is a valuable way to train visual reactions.
    It is obviously not a sparring video you dildos lickers .

    Are you saying the point of these drills are to train visual reactions ? If so wouldn't some kind of actual feed back instead of constant reward be better ?


    I was when I made it maybe, back in 2006.
    It was fun thanks for sharing.

    David was not told to, "freeze like this". He stops because he is beat and to continue would not be reflective of what would happen with the hit making contact.
    LARPing . Honor System LARPing at that .
    Rene might have told him what to do for the demo here, but in the drill the other player can do any attack they choose, randomly, and you practice closing and striking the arms and neck, not his stick. Thus it is suppressed, unless you like getting hit on the arms and head.
    I still think free movement , proper gear ( in this case fencing masks and padded sticks ), and less "you do this, I do that " would bring about better results.


    Care to elaborate? or can I make assumptions about the assumptions you have about Rene's assumptions?...;-) really though I assume you were waiting for my response before continuing.
    The bits shown would require almost super human accuracy and timing not to mention more than a little luck to get the results of unbalancing and/or stopping/disrupting a strike mid swing as shown, when you simply add mobility and intent to actually hit you .

    I am just not impressed by playing pretend . No matter how good the theory looks .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
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