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  1. #1
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    Who Says There Is No MA Angle On 9/11?

    I have been looking closely at the various work that has been done by the Truther and Debunker communities on the Twin Tower collapses, trying to work it out for myself rationally.

    I did some reading on progressive collapse in domino systems and confirmed my intuition that domino chains fall at a constant rate. I wondered whether vertical domino chains would also fall at a constant rate, and finally looked at these:

    (up to about 1:00) YouTube- 02.mp4
    YouTube- 33 Bricks World Record
    YouTube- breaking 35 bricks

    I'm working on quantifying the rate of collapse in the breaking demos, but my estimate so far are that it's pretty close.

    This has implication for 9/11 research of any variety, because the official "Pancake Collapse" theory of the WTC collapse events would be constrained in the same way as the multi brick breaks above (ie: constrained to a constant rate of collapse). I am still digging for good measurememnts of what was actually observed, but I don't believe the towers actually fell at a constant rate. It seems they accelerated.

    Food for thought.

    No tinfoil hats please <:)
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 3/04/2010 12:18pm at .
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    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

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  2. #2
    Coach Josh's Avatar
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    Its called physics and proper engineering.

    Look up terminal velocity.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.

  3. #3
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Interesting premise. As you guys are scientists and my training stopped at basic physics I'll ask a question.


    Wouldn't the plane strikes change the collapse as well basically, negating the brick breaks you posted?

    To clarify the planes didn't strike directly down like the forearm brick break videos.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    Its called physics and proper engineering.
    Mentioning Physics and Engineering in a sentence is not the same as explaining what you mean.

    Seriously, what aspect of the subject are you commenting on?

    Look up terminal velocity.
    Really?!

    Thinking about terminal velocity is what got me started down this road to begin with.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    To clarify the planes didn't strike directly down like the forearm brick break videos.
    That's absolutely correct. The planes did not stike straight down. The official explanation to date is that the floors above the plane-hit dropped like a hammer after their structure failed, and hit the undamaged structure hard enough to collapse one floor to the next (to the next... etc)

    I was observing that this should tend to converge on a constant rate of collapse (like dominos). The fact that I can't find that sort of thing in the videos of the event leads me to think someone wasn't doing their job when they were asked to analyse this for the government.
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 3/04/2010 1:10pm at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

  6. #6
    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT supporting member
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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Interesting premise. As you guys are scientists and my training stopped at basic physics I'll ask a question.


    Wouldn't the plane strikes change the collapse as well basically, negating the brick breaks you posted?

    To clarify the planes didn't strike directly down like the forearm brick break videos.
    For reference:

    YouTube- WTC Collapse Sim - Quick Demo

    It gets pretty hard to keep track of where the collapse front if after a while, but you will notice that the real and free-fall-sim towers are close to keeping pace in the first half of the vid.
    The real tower lags somewhat, but really not too much at all.
    If you watch the velocity readout for the sim on the left, you will see that it is accelerating.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

  7. #7
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Thank you.

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    Don't forget to account for the non-traditional construction of the Towers. Instead of being held up by thick supporting columns the towers were constructed with flexible supports on the outside that were then joined by the floors to achieve rigidity. The collapse could have triggered a "zipper effect" where the exterior supports were ripped off the floors below as the mass of the buildings travelled downward.

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    Coach Josh's Avatar
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    Physics is self explanatory. The floors are falling objects is really quite simple what will happen when gravity takes a hold of them.

    Engineering is also self explanatory. The towers were built in a city and engineered in such a way that if there was a failure or a need to remove them this pancake effect would happen.

    People are quick to take on the most far fetched explanation for an event and dismiss the simplest explanation.

    Take for example this. Which will hit the ground first a bullet dropped from 5ft or a bullet fired straight from 5 feet?
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorpal View Post
    Don't forget to account for the non-traditional construction of the Towers. Instead of being held up by thick supporting columns the towers were constructed with flexible supports on the outside that were then joined by the floors to achieve rigidity. The collapse could have triggered a "zipper effect" where the exterior supports were ripped off the floors below as the mass of the buildings travelled downward.
    This is really not correct. The Towers were held up by thick supporting columns.

    Here is a random vid that shows the size, number and location of the central columns pretty well. The content is really not important. I picked it because it a very accurate model of the Towers' design, and plent of different views.

    YouTube- WTC Finite Element Analysis

    0:40 is a good place to start if you want to see the core.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

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