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  1. captainzorikh is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2010 4:37pm


     Style: grappling, swordfighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    SCA Combat

    OK folks, here's where you get to say how unrealistic SCA combat is, how ineffective it is as a self-defense system, how out-of-shape the fighters are, and basically post up all your third-person accounts of how worthless, stupid, awful, self-important, historically inaccurate, and meaningless that group of LARPers known as the Society for Creative Anachronism is.

    Or, if you prefer, ask reasonable questions and I will try to give reasonable answers. I have 23 years experience in the game, have won a local championship and a couple of tourneys, been a squire and a locakl knight marshal, fought in many Pennsics, as well as Gulf Wars and Estrella, produced a documentary about the Pennsic War, and have had the good fortune to have known several significant and accomplished people in the game.

    The SCA is a big organization, though, and there are many people in it with many opinions, and one of those opinions may be that I should shut up and go away. Just sayin'...
  2. thorthe power is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/03/2010 7:38pm


     Style: Not sure anymore

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Pennsic Videos

    Were epic!!

    I've been to a couple of Dagorhir's Rags and they paled by compiarson.
    I've got friends who are players in both games that have invited me to Pennsic but I never took them up on it for various reasons.

    Due to not digging the fighting in Dagorhir, I was always content with the campfire friendship and drinking thing...oh, and the maidens. Then getting married having kids and other physical pursuits kept me busy.

    After seeing SCA's fighting videos and especially the Pennsic clips I may seriously take them up on their offer. Question: How much does equipment/Saftey gear/armor generally cost? Between being a "scenerio paintball larper" and advid real firearms shooter my check book is already pretty taxed. :qright6::XXknight:
  3. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/03/2010 8:08pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by captainzorikh View Post
    OK folks, here's where you get to say how unrealistic SCA combat is, how ineffective it is as a self-defense system, how out-of-shape the fighters are, and basically post up all your third-person accounts of how worthless, stupid, awful, self-important, historically inaccurate, and meaningless that group of LARPers known as the Society for Creative Anachronism is.

    Or, if you prefer, ask reasonable questions and I will try to give reasonable answers. I have 23 years experience in the game, have won a local championship and a couple of tourneys, been a squire and a locakl knight marshal, fought in many Pennsics, as well as Gulf Wars and Estrella, produced a documentary about the Pennsic War, and have had the good fortune to have known several significant and accomplished people in the game.

    The SCA is a big organization, though, and there are many people in it with many opinions, and one of those opinions may be that I should shut up and go away. Just sayin'...
    I don't really have any questions right now, but a comment or two...

    I've never seen an SCA fight for myself. I have heard lots of people bitch and moan about the lack of "realism" in the rule set.

    But the way I understand it, you dress up in real armor (it's heavy, it's hot, it's somewhat restricting), and then you bash away at each other with full force blows from slightly padded rattan sticks.

    I have to respect that.

    I'll be interested in seeing how your conversation with HEMA practitioners here develops. I think you'll have an interesting perspective.
  4. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2010 8:20pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: comparison shopping

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How can someone stop themself from becoming a rhino? Personally I can't understand why everyone isn't one. You take a raised pain tolerance due to adreneline add the will to win and it seems inevitable.
  5. captainzorikh is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2010 8:35pm


     Style: grappling, swordfighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, come on over, it'll be a hoot!

    If you have a decent and dependable income, I would say that you shouldn't have to spend more than two weeks' worth of it on your gear, and it is usually easy to do well for quite less.

    The equipment/safety gear/armor you need is the basic minimum armor to fight in and whatever weapons you choose to use. Many local groups have loaner armor or someone can let you borrow theirs for the first try, but you will want to get your own soon.

    How much you have to spend may depend on how much work you want to do, how handy your are with your hands, and what you want to look like. If you want to look like the Plastic Warrior and can operate a hacksaw and a power drill, you can get a barrel, some scrap leather and buckles, and a cheap helmet and be done for less than $150. On the other hand you can find full suits for over $2,000 that look like they came out of a museum, and everything in between. You can find lots of armorers at http://www.reocities.com/scaarmor

    The complete rules for armor and weapons are listed here http://www.sca.org/officers/marshal/...l_handbook.pdf Note that some kingdoms have additional rules to those of the Society Marshallate. To sum up, you need rigid protection (steel, leather, or plastic) on your elbows, knees, kidneys, neck, and hands, and a cup. It's usually reccommended that you also put padding or more on your breastbone, spine, thighs, foreams, and shoulders. And your helmet must be 16 ga. steel or better, with no hole in it wider than one inch, and must cover your entire head, down to an inch below your chin.

    With those rules and recommendations, and if you don't mind looking like an English or French knight from ca. 1400 AD (which is actually a rather cool thing to look like, IMO), you can get a pair of articulated elbows and knees with leather thighs and forearms attached, a breastplate or coat of plates, a pair of articulated shoulder plates, a gorget (neck piece), a bascinet helm with cage face, a pair of plastic or steel gauntlets, a basket hilt for your sword, an aluminum shield blank, and a rattan staff to cut into weapons, for mid-to-high 3 digits if you shop around. Take the elbows and knees without the extra leather and make a cuirass yourself and you can save a couple of hundred bucks.

    So in other words, for the price of a couple of months at Renzo Gracie's, you could be crashing and bashing in style!

    And to put it in perspective, some folks use sports equipment for some of their armor, mostly from hockey, lacrosse, and football. This sports equipments costs about as much to buy new as the equivalent armor that looks medieval.

    If you want an earlier look, say Viking or Celt from the 10th century, you can get or make inexpensive, low-profile plastic armor and have a shirt and trousers made to fit over it.

    Plastic can also be covered with leather to look like a leather plate, or cut into plates and sewn or riveted into cloth or leather for a good coat of plates.

    You will probably also want some kind of gambezon or padded jacket under your armor. A judo gi does nicely, or you can stitch together something out of moving blankets, or buy one from someone like Brian Price's company (they make a very nice, affordable one that I wear, and love) for one or two or three hundred.

    Much of the fun of the SCA is learning how to make stuff, and you can feel proud when people look at you and say "hey, that's pretty cool, where did you get it?" and you can say "I made it."
  6. captainzorikh is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2010 8:37pm


     Style: grappling, swordfighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Styygens View Post
    I don't really have any questions right now, but a comment or two...

    I've never seen an SCA fight for myself. I have heard lots of people bitch and moan about the lack of "realism" in the rule set.

    But the way I understand it, you dress up in real armor (it's heavy, it's hot, it's somewhat restricting), and then you bash away at each other with full force blows from slightly padded rattan sticks.

    I have to respect that.

    I'll be interested in seeing how your conversation with HEMA practitioners here develops. I think you'll have an interesting perspective.
    Thanks! And just to clarify, most of the time the rattan is not padded.
  7. captainzorikh is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2010 8:47pm


     Style: grappling, swordfighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    How can someone stop themself from becoming a rhino? Personally I can't understand why everyone isn't one. You take a raised pain tolerance due to adreneline add the will to win and it seems inevitable.
    First off, doing anything in the SCA is not just about doing that thing, but about doing it in the attempt to recreate an idealized medieval society. In such a society, everything you do is about honor, chivalry, and courtesy. It is better to die the right way than live the wrong way. So when someone beats you fair and square, you admit it, and they will do you the same honor.

    A good killing blow is a very distinctive sensation. It's like a thunderclap on a sunny day. It's not just about pain (it should never be about pain), it's bout feeling the force of the blow through your armor. It really takes a deliberate effort to ignore.

    There are marshals who watch the fight. They are not referees or umpires, exactly. They are not keeping score, they are there to make sure things stay safe. If you appear to be not taking good blows, they will stop the fight and talk to you about it. If you continue to not take blows, they will tell you to stop fighting. If it gets really bad, they may consider not letting you fight ever again.

    And then some people just take it on themselves to hit harder, and the rhino winds up getting hurt. People getting hurt is a bad thing. the more people get hurt, the fewer people are left to play with.

    So 1) be honorable. Admit it when you are hit. 2) realize the marshals won't let you play anymore if you don't. 3) realize there is always someone out there who can hit harder than you.

    There are songs about this "The Ballad of Sir Rhino," "You've Lost All Sense Of Feeling," etc...
  8. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/03/2010 9:23pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by captainzorikh View Post
    Thanks! And just to clarify, most of the time the rattan is not padded.
    See? What's not to love?

    I found your thread in newbietown and caught some of the videos. Nice stuff. From your posts, I think you'll fit nicely here. You may take some lumps, but you'll be okay.
  9. thorthe power is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/04/2010 6:21am


     Style: Not sure anymore

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the info!! Time to start saving...actually doesn't sound to expensive and I have friends that can help get me started with gear...I'll keep you posted. Maybe I can be a little ready by Pennsic and only get beat up a little:-)
  10. Polar Bear is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/04/2010 6:59am


     Style: WMA - German Longsword

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    SCA is not a martial art, never has been and never will be. At best it could be defined as a sport.

    YouTube- CODII teaser SCA heavy combat

    It's looks fun and everyone is enjoying themselves. Which is fine but don't confuse that with Martial Training. It's like comparing paintball to joining the marines.
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