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  1. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2010 9:14pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    funny. if a loss prevention guy thinks I'm stealing and tries to detain me, I'm going to slam him to the ground and choke him out since he's not a real cop

    if I'm acting suspicious in Mtripp's store fellow shoppers might get to see the most technical streetfight ever...
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  2. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2010 9:24pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Guys, they cut my hours to 17 this week, and 23 next week. I will have to go back to selling plasma to try and stay afloat. At this point I am really not worrying about what happens there. The writing is on the wall.
    Can't you get a gig teaching control tactics to cops or something.

    Seriously every shitty TMA teacher does this why can't you?
  3. Archetype is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2010 10:09pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache View Post
    funny. if a loss prevention guy thinks I'm stealing and tries to detain me, I'm going to slam him to the ground and choke him out since he's not a real cop
    Actually (here in NY at least), A loss prevention agent has to see you both conceal an item and/or attempt to leave the store without paying for the item. And I'm not sure but I think they are more lenient when it comes to loss prevention agents using self defense.
  4. stealth_monkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2010 10:39pm


     Style: Kendo, Iaido, BJJ noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While I understand that you're stuck between a rock and a hard place here, some of the things you say don't really add up.

    Now we do have "loss prevention" people. I will not say how many, but it is VERY small. Many times they are NOT in the store at all. We are all given a "class" in handling shoplifting and shoplifters. This takes about an hour..nuff said.
    you should not confront them directly
    Well, a few nights a go we had someone fill up a shopping cart and charge the door. I grabbed the cart; he struck my arm.....

    ..he was hit with a foot sweep and bounced off the floor!
    Looking at this as a devil's advocate, you are (I assume) not a loss prevention officer for your company. You were specifically told not to confront a shoplifter directly. Now unless this particular shoplifter is running at speed with a full shopping cart while simultaneously firing off jabs with one hand at random employees, you willingly chose to put yourself in harms way and threw an alleged shoplifter to the ground. Now, while I don't know the American legal system too well (I assume it's pretty similar to the Australian system) and while I've got boundless respect for you as a martial artist, I'd have fired you on the spot. You opened up the company to two (if either you or the other party were injured) large legal battles for the sake of a few hundred bucks worth of stock.

    That aside, I do hope your manager comes to his senses and gives you your hours back. From what I understand the rights of employees in America are ludicrous at best, would be good to see the good guy win for once.
  5. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2010 11:41pm


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache View Post
    funny. if a loss prevention guy thinks I'm stealing and tries to detain me, I'm going to slam him to the ground and choke him out since he's not a real cop

    if I'm acting suspicious in Mtripp's store fellow shoppers might get to see the most technical streetfight ever...
    Better idea: Since it's illegal to detain somebody for refusing to show a receipt (unless you've signed something like in Costco or Sam's Club) that you asked them to present without reason, you could avoid having charges pressed against you for assault and just settle for making them look stupid when the police arrive and tell them you've done nothing wrong. Heck, maybe you could even make a case against Wally World for unjustly detaining you. I'm not a lawyer, but you could try.
  6. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2010 11:44pm


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by stealth_monkey View Post
    You opened up the company to two (if either you or the other party were injured) large legal battles for the sake of a few hundred bucks worth of stock.
    Isn't shoplifting over 300 dollars worth of merchandise a felony charge? I wonder how well a felon would do in a case against a person who injured them trying to stop them. I know I'd rule against the felon if I were on that jury.
  7. tgace is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2010 11:52pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zaohu View Post
    Isn't shoplifting over 300 dollars worth of merchandise a felony charge?
    Depends on your State. Here it's $1000 (or a credit card) to become a Grand Larceny.
  8. The Question is offline
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    Octopussy!

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2010 11:56pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Striking/Grappling/Poking

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache View Post
    funny. if a loss prevention guy thinks I'm stealing and tries to detain me, I'm going to slam him to the ground and choke him out since he's not a real cop

    if I'm acting suspicious in Mtripp's store fellow shoppers might get to see the most technical streetfight ever...
    I would pay to see that ****. Technical streetfights are fucking awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goju - joe
    being a dick with skill is only marginally better than being a dick without skill.
  9. stealth_monkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2010 12:02am


     Style: Kendo, Iaido, BJJ noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zaohu View Post
    Isn't shoplifting over 300 dollars worth of merchandise a felony charge? I wonder how well a felon would do in a case against a person who injured them trying to stop them. I know I'd rule against the felon if I were on that jury.
    One of the problems in retail is the massive catch 22 regarding shoplifters. If they haven't left your property, they haven't shoplifted anything. If they have left your property, you have no more legal right to detain them then any average joe on the street. I assume America is similar. Felonies are for the police to deal with and determine, not a walmart bag checker. From mtripp describing them "charging the door", it suggests what could, from my untrained internet-lawyer point of view, be argued was assaulting and imprisoning someone against their will, which I understand is also a felony.
  10. tgace is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2010 12:15am


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's more about what a district attorney is willing to argue.

    A person placing an expensive item down their pants can be (and has been) successfully argued to be theft; even if the person is apprehended before leaving the store.

    Most US laws for larceny are written as "the stealing of property" with STEAL defined as:

    the wrongful or willful taking of money or property belonging to someone else with intent to deprive the owner of its use or benefit either temporarily or permanently. No particular type of movement or carrying away is required.

    The "select/conceal/pass all points of purchase" thing is more about store policy than it is anything to do with written law. All those elements make for a more solid case of course and more importantly reduce the odds of a lawsuit for unlawful arrest...which is what concerns most retailers the most.
    Last edited by tgace; 2/27/2010 12:34am at .
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