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  1. GRINGO1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/24/2010 2:48pm


     Style: MMA,BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Who else got ripped off at naga?

    are there other people who've been ripped of by Kipp Kollar and the NAGA? i would like to hear your story.

    the first time i got fooled shame on kipp

    last month i took my team to NAGA. i had a 16 year old teen fighting in the mens division. when he made his first 2 opponents tap, the referee along with kipp kollar informed me that pedro miglianowas too good for his division and would be moved up. essentially pedro was disqualified for "sandbagging" a phrase that kipp seems obsessed with.

    kipp accuses us of cheating

    needless to say i was shocked and amazed that kipp would throw those accusations around. i was equally amazed that kipp would rip off a 16 year old kid.
    i decided that my school would NOT boycott his tournament. after all we need to fight in something. but i was disgusted enough to sit the next one out. i told my fighters that they could go if they wanted to, but i felt burnt out.

    the second time i got fooled, shame on me (kipp ripps off a little kid)

    so this time only one of my fighters went. 13 year old andrew ramerez. andrew has only been doing jiiu-jitsu for 2 months. but with a background in kickboxing andrew is an exceptional athlete. like pedro he also fought up. he fought up so he could do submissions. he had 4 matches and won all of them by submission. when they called the medalist out, he went forward to receive his medal. at that point he was told by kipp and his referee that he was too good for this devision and would have to fight up. he and his father were told that the gold medal would be given to the boy he beat, andrew would be moved up, and would receive nothing. instead he would have to start over again in a division that already had started.

    what i try and teach young people

    both pedro and andrew had done shitty at the fight2win. as their coach i want my kids to have an attitude of "when the going gets tough the tough get going." so when both of them lost i told them your just going to have to pick up your training, and they did.

    kipp says my guys trained too much for the NAGA

    when i informed kip that pedro was not a cheat that he had been training everyday kipp replied "well most people just train 3 times a week." he told me that he was just trying to make things as fair as possible.
    when andrews father approached kipp with the argument that andrew had been training evryday so that he could win this tournament kipp told him "well most these kids just train twice a week." he also said that if he had six kids that were beaten quickly they might not come back.

    kipp the karate man

    i think kipp is ridiculous. i researched him and found out that he comes from a karate background. tae kwon do touraments like the special olympics give out medals to everyone. i think that teaches kids to accept failure.
    i think kipp being a karate person doesn't understand jiu-jitsu. one of the many things jiu-jitsu teaches is that if you work hard you'll be rewarded. thats what i try and teach the young people at my school.
    kipps weird view of BJJ
    i'm pretty sure that kipp's grappling isn't very high level. perhaps hes had a crappy coach or maybe he's not a good athlete. maybe because of his lack of progress, he can't imagine how quickly one can get good at bjj if they train hard and are good athletes. he automatically thinks that they are cheating.

    boycott dollamur

    i can't do a lot about kipps phony results, except just not attend. but i am going to raise hell for the kids and parents whom were hurt and embarrassed.
    for one i'm going to go to dollamur and tell them, that that one of the tournaments they sponsor doesn't give a crap about hurting the feelings of a little kid. and i'm going to tell them how many pissed off parents the NAGA must generate.

    MY QUESTION

    i'm just wondering, is my school is the only one to get accused of cheating? has anyone else gotten ripped off by kipp?
  2. Sri Hanuman is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/24/2010 2:50pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you for bringing this up. I am very curious to see how this resolves. Do you know any of the other coaches that attended the event? Might be good to have them weigh in.
    =================
    Kama Sutra blue belt.

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  3. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    2/24/2010 3:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    it's been a long time since i competed at NAGA, but to be fair, there has been a very big problem with sandbagging at their events in the past, and he may be trying to remedy that. i can't speak to the specifics of your situation, but when i was competing, i saw guys with 4 years of high school wrestling and a few months of BJJ enter into the "novice" division.

    at the time there was discussion of keeping records of competitors and making sure that they competed in the right division the next time, but i don't know how they decided to do that in the end.

    i'm not saying that you are wrong and that your fighter wasn't robbed. don't take it the wrong way. what i am saying is that sandbagging is a real issue, and needs to be dealt with. i'll trust you that you weren't trying to sandbag, but if your fighter was easily tapping everyone out in his division maybe he should move up. i know that gold medals are nice, but what you should be putting them into competition for is to face serious opposition so that they can test themselves and see where their skills are at.

    losing can be easily as valuable as winning, in terms of their long term development as fighters.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  4. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/24/2010 3:35pm

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is the main reason I don't go to BJJ tournaments any more. I have had bad experiences just like yours. Not a Naga, but a local tournaments. I know that everyone uses BJJ records to show how legit they are, but my experience showed me how legit they are not. People getting medals when there is only two people in their division. Lots of sandbagging. And general caruptness by the refs and judges.

    All of it left a bad taste in my mouth and I don't need that drama in my life. Shitty situation for you and for your students.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

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  5. Sri Hanuman is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/24/2010 3:54pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can somebody please explain what sandbagging is? I'm still a relative newb to sub grappling, and have yet to attend a single competition. It would be of great help to know the terminology.
    =================
    Kama Sutra blue belt.

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  6. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    2/24/2010 3:56pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sri Hanuman View Post
    Can somebody please explain what sandbagging is? I'm still a relative newb to sub grappling, and have yet to attend a single competition. It would be of great help to know the terminology.
    sandbagging is entering a division lower than you should for the purpose of winning.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  7. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/24/2010 4:02pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We should create a section for reporting sandbaggers.
  8. Sri Hanuman is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/24/2010 4:07pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    We should create a section for reporting sandbaggers.
    Good thinking. Goes along with the exposing fraud theme, and is a useful service to the general MA community.

    I see these working in a similar fashion to MABS investigations...
    =================
    Kama Sutra blue belt.

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  9. CoffeeFan is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/24/2010 4:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO/BJJ/Judo and others

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's a great example of sandbagging.

    A gym mate competed in his first Pankration tournament in the Novice division. His opponent took him down and pinned him for the entire time. After the match we found his opponent had the following backround:

    -4 years high school wrestling, state champion
    -4 years college wrestling
    -Is the head wrestling coach for his team for the last 2 years

    However, since he only just started kickboxing he felt he belonged in the Novice division. Sandbagging is a major problem that I don't see going away anytime soon
  10. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/24/2010 4:22pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Nothing - yet

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    sandbagging is entering a division lower than you should for the purpose of winning.
    Is sandbagging usually against tournament rules, as a matter of interest (is it considered to be cheating?) - or is it more of a poor etiquette, frowned-upon thing?
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