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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2010 9:39am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You don't understand red herring do you?

    http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...d-herring.html

    Here let me show you:


    A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

    1. Topic A is under discussion.
    2. Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
    3. Topic A is abandoned.
    You bringing up Christa in this thread has no relevance what so ever to the topic.

    None.

    Did I bring up Anshu? Nope.

    Did you plagiarize an e-zine article from kung fu magazine online? Yep.


    Pssst go look up plagiarism and realize what Jim and Gezere did is worlds away from what you have done.
  2. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2010 5:26pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    ... Pssst go look up plagiarism and realize what Jim and Gezere did is worlds away from what you have done.
    What the hell did I do??? :sad7:
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2010 5:42pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    self contradict much? you've provided as much evidence as i have that what you quoted from wiki is fact.
    You not providing "references" is his current rant. You both have said if need be you'll provide them.


    Even if you don't it isn't plagiarism.
  4. superninjagod is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2010 1:23pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    The case against Kalona the idiot

    Seriously Kalona you always seem to post vids or say things that just contradict yourself

    1) you said Ninjas never wore armor, yet it was posted several time and instances of ninjas wearing armor and acting as samurai, As well as vid with Hatsumi wearing armor showing techniques. You never once addressed this

    2) you claimed that ninjas never stole samurai techniques, however not only is there similar jujutsu and sword techniques but several of the nine bujinkan schools ARE samurai schools.

    3)You claimed ninjutsu was great because glen levy was so powerful. Yet when it was proven that he was using a kung fu technique not a Bujinkan technique you still insisted that he was relevant

    4)You claimed Ground fighting does not work in a real fight, yet when you posted vids of REAL fights they ALL would have been won by an experience ground fighter

    5) You claim that all Booj Dojo's in the west are fake, yet you have yet to tell anyone where you are from, what your Dojo's name is and how your training is different. When there have been people from all over the world who have posted similar training methods especially to the Training in Japan. And you claim that we are the fakes.

    6) you claimed a certain video was shot after a guy was beat
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona View Post
    thats because before the guy attacking him introduced his knee to his face he was attacked by around 3-4 guys which wasn't a part of the vid.
    But there is still no evidence to suggest that, the vid looks like a neo nazi hazing video as suppose to a real fight. And one of the supposed attackers is caring for him after the fight. A big hint.... nobody has their shirts on


    7) You keep claiming Human weapon as evidence but you have been refuted several times now
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona View Post
    on a serious note, you do realise that all the martial arts mentioned have been around and in use for hundreds of years? the Malaysians and Indonisians used silat to fight against foreign colonists. bokator was used by cambodian warriors ditto for muay boran , muay thai's ancestor for thai people.
    krav maga is used by the israeli army. its rather insecure to feel that a person can only be right when he's saying that one martial art is good after putting half a dozen others down. maybe some people don't need to go around saying "your martial art sucks" to people to add weight to their opinion or maybe you're not confident enough to believe someone just because he hasn't put other martial arts down but that doesn't make him a liar. plus if they were ready to lie to prove the martial arts effectiveness why would they ever bother winning a match against the hosts? they even had the ready of excuse of " i trained for 3 days he trained for 3 years hence i got my butt kicked". you know you're being pretty stubborn and thick right?
    You post irrelevant martial arts to this conversation, and you leave out important evidence. Human weapon also covered escrima, Judo, karate and TKD, do you think that these are "complete MA's" with no negative points. Either you know you are full of ****, or you are just plain stupid


    8) you red herring another point about weight by posting a stick fight vid, so you don't address the weight class issue, you miss used the word larping

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona View Post
    really? full resistance? first time i saw this vid i thought it was a spoof on escrima then i realised you guys were serious lol. seriously i feel embarrassed cause im actually trying to discuss martial arts with the kind of people who are in this vid.

    YouTube- Mojo vs Domite: Stick Fighting
    the vid's ive seen of you guys look like full larping
    Larping is acting, these two are sparring, with safety equipment, in a way that is seen as acceptable by most people on this site. Using training methods absent in your Dojo. Are these two very talented. Probably not.However if I posted vids from Mountainous it would be irrelevant to you and your Dojo too.


    9) you dicktuck out of dealing with BJJ no gi grappling by concentrating on a point I made about why people invest in rashguards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona View Post
    my dear mentally handicapped friend surely you realise that removing your shirt and wearing a rash guard to protect your dumb sparring partner is not the same as wearing a t shirt right? on one hand you say that you keep your torso's bare to protect your opponents hand then you say "hey they're only wearing t shirts and occasionally jackets and gi's" and im contradicting myself?? and plus if you still can't figure this out someone's made a thread on how upper body clothing plays a big role in a fight read. Understand. Shut up.
    However you failed to realize that that whole point of no gi training is to teach you how to grapple with out relying on a gi for leverage. Like comparing free style wrestling to Judo. Not in a SINGLE video do you have someone wearing a jacket that could be used to easily throw them or choke them out. Hence making No-gi training in BJJ and wrestling extremely important in street fights.

    10) you post more irrelevant material of beginners training as to say that is the best of our skill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona View Post
    and this is the epitome of martial skill.
    YouTube- Bullshido can't fight
    Yet you fail to post vids of your own. Let me take the liberty of posting like YOU should have

    YouTube- Ninjutsu - San Shin No Kata Richard Van Donk

    Van donk is a highly respected 15th dan in the Booj yet look at 1:09 to 1:16 and you tell me if that is the epitome of Booj. Cause at least I posted a video of someone relevant in your martial art

    11) You post fake videos claiming that it is something that it is not, this is worse that the Glen Levy bit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona View Post
    ninjutsu's used by various paramilitary forces too. can't say the same bout the naked men humping sport.
    YouTube- Lithuanian ninjutsu
    Wrong again, this is just a Ninjutsu club in Lithuania acting like a bunch of jackasses. They have nothing to do with the military. The big hint was the goofy ninja masks. **** you are dumb. It took me 1 minute on google to figure that out. If you want to show military training you should post like this

    YouTube- Army Rangers Training Gracie Jiu-Jitsu
    so STFU


    12) this just speaking to itself
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona View Post
    red herring? really? you guy's are the one's who keep bringing it up but always refuse to give evidence. how bout you provide some real evidence to substantiate your (repeated) claims. it would be nice to see some proof you guy's aren't pathological liars you know. or you could just admit you're making stuff up.

    in light of all the evidence against you, it funny that you claim we are making things up








    13) you keep bring up how MMA isn't realistic, yet all of YOUR evidence says that it is. You have yet to post anything to show that your training is at all superior
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona View Post
    now. that. is. seriously. stupid. irrevelant? the difference between a guy trying to score points off you or trying to make u tap and a guy trying to stab you shoot you or seriously damage you is irrevelant? anyone who's ever been in a real fight would know the difference.a guy in an mma ring won't call in his buddy's or use a weapon cos thats against their rules. a guy in bar for example will probably break the end of his beer bottle and try to skew you with it. and also call a few of his buddies for help. not irrevelant. its a BIG difference.
    You realize that all MA's face this problem and ALL deal with it poorly, including ninjutsu, krav maga, JKD and ALL RBSD systems. If you dont know that it just goes to show how ignorant and poorly trained you are


    14) You constantly act like you know what happens in a MMA gym or training regiment. Yet you haven't really watched the sport or have done any real training
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona View Post
    first of all MMA fighters reserve 90% of their grappling training for ground techniques. only grappling i've seen so far on standup is some lame take down which even a guy with no martial art experience whatsover used in the vid much better than you.(read: no training). plus you can only grapple with one person at a time. maybe two if you're fighting midgets or dwarves, but anyway. if you're attacked by more than one person or even if its you and a few friends (if you have any) vs a group, grappling especially on the ground is like saying hey im down and and my hands are not free so you can stomp me any time you want too. standup too its the same story. you're leaving yourself unguarded unless you quickly disable your opponent so far i havent any evidence of any MMA technique that can do this however i feel that anyone who watches your"realistic sparring matches" may die laughing.which is kinda dangerous
    You dont even know what a take down is, you have no understanding of a clinch game. You have no appreciation of what it takes to fight someone of equal skill. You try and talk about how MMA stand up is not realistic... its just unbelievable at this point Kalona


    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona View Post
    yes but you're sure 1) no one else is going to interfere. in ninjutsu training often the teacher changes the setupto 2 on 1 without telling the people already fighting. 2) your opponent has no weapons again in ninjutsu if you conceal training weapon's in your clothing you're allowed to use them in sparring.
    3) the time and place is fixed. once again in ninjutsu every now and then the teacher has one student attack another at any random place in the dojo at any point during the class.
    4) along with lunge punch's which are quite similar to hay maker punches that are thrown on the street, we train at full speed against jab's crosses hooks uppercut's elbows head butting etc. plus we spar regularly.
    You make ludicrous claims about your training that does not make sense. You claim that you are training/sparring in a way that someone gets KO'd or tapped out, yet you say that your instructor will put two on one, or allow you to use weapons if you snuck it in, or random attacks. If what you are claiming is true the injury rate in your club would be so high that there would be no student base. Your an idiot, who lies, with no real proof. In fact I don't think you understand the word proof considering your vids prove my point and not yours.

    Oh, and LUNGE punches are not SIMILAR at all to haymakers.

    14) JIm jude covered this point better than me
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona View Post
    for starter's ive never put down either kickboxing or BJJ all i've said is that kickboxing excludes grappling elbows,knee's, open hand strikes and head butting (which is kinda obvious) and that BJJ focuses a lot on grappling that won't work against multiple or armed opponents (which again is a fact)

    15) Again another red herring that proves nothing, you cant even make out what is happening in this video.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona View Post
    YouTube- Bar Fight Video (Patong,Thailand)

    friendly word of advice. don't go to the floor or grapple if you're stuck there. avoiding kissing the men around you would be nice too.
    ground fighting is effective only in a 1 on 1 setup
    as I said in a real fight nobody willingly goes to the ground unless the opponent is a better stand up fighter. Otherwise they are usually taken down. Instead of accepting this which was said earlier you keep posting about it like you discovered the holy grail to BJJ weakness

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona View Post
    lets face it. maybe just maybe MMA might be somewhat effective in a fight against a single assailant who just took his clothes off(probably so you dont hurt your thumbs) in a place with soft smooth flooring with nothing that can be used as a weapon and your opponent doesnt bite or take groin shots or strike at the back of the neck or strike your neck or pull your hair and there are no foreign object's like tables chairs etc but anywhere else its useless. but from what i've seen from your training you would probably get ass raped by most guys on the street who have no training whatsoever.
    This quote is just to stupid to comment on. Spoken by someone with no REAL martial arts training. Keep larping if you want, but don't comment on MMA training unless you have done some. The difference between me and Jim_Jude and you, is that we have trained in YOUR martial art. So we can comment on it at length. Since you have NO MMA training. STFU

    Either address the points above, or get lost
  5. raylawley is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2010 9:38am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona
    ninjutsu's used by various paramilitary forces too. can't say the same bout the naked men humping sport.
    No, it isn't.

    Oh, let me guess...now you'll change your argument to "lots of paramilitary guys train in the Bujinkan!"

    Please address the rest of the points in my previous post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona
    really? full resistance? first time i saw this vid i thought it was a spoof on escrima then i realised you guys were serious lol. seriously i feel embarrassed cause im actually trying to discuss martial arts with the kind of people who are in this vid.....looks like full larping
    Yes, that video shows much more resistance than in any Bujinkan video I've ever seen. It also looks much more realistic than any Bujinkan video I've ever seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalona
    now. that. is. seriously. stupid. irrevelant? the difference between a guy trying to score points off you or trying to make u tap and a guy trying to stab you shoot you or seriously damage you is irrevelant? anyone who's ever been in a real fight would know the difference.a guy in an mma ring won't call in his buddy's or use a weapon cos thats against their rules. a guy in bar for example will probably break the end of his beer bottle and try to skew you with it. and also call a few of his buddies for help. not irrevelant. its a BIG difference.
    Why do you think people tap, Kalona?

    Yes, there is a large psychological difference between fighting in real life and fighting in the ring. So, how does the Bujinkan's training emulate this psychological condition better than an MMA bout does?

    In fact, since you're adamant on MMA not being like a real fight, please provide an example of Bujinkan training which more closely resembles a real fight than an MMA fight does.

    Otherwise what you're trying to say is that "real fighting is totally brutal, with weapons and eye gouging and multiple opponents and totally unpredictable" and that the real solution to this is to train like the Bujinkan does.

    That is, in a totally compliant manner. Because that resembles a real fight much more closely than MMA does! Because it's got gouges! And lots of people!

    Eye gouging, throat and groin strikes, multiple opponents...these are all irrelevant unless they are in context. Training against an unresisting opponent in a choreographed drill is not relevant to these brutal fights you're talking about. They are in fact both physically and psychologically FURTHER from an actual confrontation than an MMA bout is.

    So please, if you complain so much about MMA being so far from real combat, provide an example of training in the Bujinkan which more closely resembles the situation it's designed for.

    Provide evidence of the Bujinkan training against someone with a broken bottle, and all of his mates. Otherwise, the aliveness inherent in MMA training still prepares you better physically and psychologically for an actual fight than Bujinkan training does.



    Also, Jim_Jude, as much as I hate bringing up past arguments, I find it a little ironic to see you condemning this idiot when your arguments on the Silat thread were similar in many ways...
  6. twKoxinga is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2010 1:01pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Was about to bring up that the Lithuanian Ninjutsu video isn't military, but someone brought that up already. Its not stated anywhere that its military and from pictures on their site, unless Lithuania has a child conscription law, considering the amount of kids that took part in that event, it couldn't have been military.

    Since someone posted the BJJ being used in the US military, I felt I should post this up.
    YouTube- Jordan Army Jiu Jitsu Demonstration
    It's also been adopted for the Jordanian Army as well.
  7. superninjagod is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2010 5:04pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by twKoxinga View Post
    Was about to bring up that the Lithuanian Ninjutsu video isn't military, but someone brought that up already. Its not stated anywhere that its military and from pictures on their site, unless Lithuania has a child conscription law, considering the amount of kids that took part in that event, it couldn't have been military.

    Since someone posted the BJJ being used in the US military, I felt I should post this up.
    YouTube- Jordan Army Jiu Jitsu Demonstration
    It's also been adopted for the Jordanian Army as well.
    Jordanians have some sic BJJ. Can anyone give a translation(just the gist) of what the commentator way saying. Much appreciated thanks
  8. thatrugbyguy is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2010 6:51pm


     Style: Krotty/Crapple/Goonery

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not only are the rangers training JJ, they are using it as well.
    http://news.soc.mil/releases/News%20...080927-01.html
    As are other units
    http://www.michaelyon-online.com/gates-of-fire.htm
    Even Krav Maga trained soldiers find themselves ground-fighting from time to time.
    YouTube- Low Tech meets High Tech - CQB footage

    Moving beyond tactics, MMA style pressure testing is a good way of psychologically preparing for combat. I've lost the video link, but I've seen a lecture by Col. Grossman, a leading expert on preparing soldiers for the psychological and physiological stresses of battle, where he talks about adrenaline inoculation. During this talk he states that he has run several "UFC fighters" through the same high stress scenarios that he subjects soldiers to. Apparently they adapted to the pressure much faster than is typical, which Grossman attributes to the adrenaline inoculation from h2h fights being transferable to other combat situations.
    What kind of commonly practiced Ninjer training can claim the same?

    Furthermore, there is ample objective evidence of BJJ and/or ground-fighting being used successfully in every imaginable type of civilian or LEO situation.

    Disabling a mugger: YouTube- Mugging Gone Wrong (repost)

    Restraining belligerents without inflicting serious injury:
    http://www.hodiho.fr/2010/02/une-rac...n-skateur.html
    http://trueslant.com/KashmirHill/200...-indifference/

    Professional use of force against a disturbed person with a knife:
    YouTube- vartijan arkea: ruoholahti

    Disabling a gun wielding gangbanger and his accomplice:
    LiveLeak.com - Guy With Gun Confronts Skateboarder

    Stopping a school shooter:
    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/24/...ex.html?hpt=C1

    Where is the objective evidence of Ninjers doing the same?

    Are they as "street ready" as MMA fighters? Are they even as likely to have actual "street" experience?
    YouTube- urijah faber
    http://www.mmafighting.com/2008/10/0...nch-to-disarm/
    http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2008/10/6...-com-exclusive
    http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/cag...urn=mma,174225

    Are you as street lethal d3adly as Frank Mir?
    YouTube- UFC fighter Frank Mir talks guns, knives, and martial arts


    Ya, I thought so. Argument destroyed!
  9. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2010 7:26pm

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     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by raylawley View Post
    ...Also, Jim_Jude, as much as I hate bringing up past arguments, I find it a little ironic to see you condemning this idiot when your arguments on the Silat thread were similar in many ways...
    Not really. Where there is really only one style of "ninjutsu" recognized as something even vaguely authentic, there are hundreds of styles of Pencak Silat & Pukulan, from the biggest larping crap to styles such as those used by Dutch military based in Jakarta such as Pukulan Kemajoran (which I'm somewhat familiar with). I don't go in for the larping at all and the two styles that I've practiced, Pencak Silat Ratu Adil and Pukulan Kemajoran, both have sparring practice in them.

    I practice BJJ, Muay Thai, & some Judo when I have time, so I'm not completely ignorant to what makes an effective martial art. Also, I'm not trying to make any claims or defend these arts or prove anything, as I like smaller classes ^_^ but people still come knockin' whether we like it or not sometimes....

    Someone has a shitty experience of Silat or Malay/Indo martial arts, while I've had nothing but satisfying experiences. That's what happens when you have so many to choose from. Likewise, I never claimed that "Silat is teh Uber!" or that all Silat is best. It's highly anecdotal, and there are very few what I would consider "good Silat" instructors in the US, & pure Silat at that & not supplemented with FMAs or something, I could almost add them up on one hand. In 99% of Silat out there, it's just way too much ceremony, too much attachment to tradition & blind adherence to form more often than not. I fully agree with that.
    Last edited by Jim_Jude; 3/17/2010 7:45pm at .
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  10. svargman is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2010 7:42pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: kickboxing/ kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmmm would it not be ONLY logical for ninja-jedi to prove his claims about effectiveness of ninjitsu by posting a vid of himself using it in the real fight? I mean really using it in: sparing, real fight, drunk backyard boxing/ ninjing ( ahahahah or whatever they call it) or some other form of full contact.
    Actually I want to go into a local ninjitsu school and see it for myself, because I can't believe that some people actually pay moneh for that.
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