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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellis View Post
    Tadashi Abe was without doubt that hardest man I have ever met in my 74 yrs. He would carry a knife and when in a confrontation ( which was often ) he would take out the knife and offer it to his opponent, he said to me that a man without a weapon was not a challenge.
    Did it actually happen? I mean no disrespect, I loved the article and it gave me a new found respect for the actual Aikido, but giving a knife to your attacker - I don't see that as confidence but as suicidal. Whatever the reason the practice martial arts (for fighting, for fitness, for fun, for war, for defense, even for ego), suicide doesn't seem to be a good reason.

  2. #52
    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher supporting member
    DAYoung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Define "practical skills"

    2008. Kohn, T. "Creatively sculpting the self through the discipline of martial arts training", in Dyck, N. (ed) Exploring Regimes of Discipline:The Dynamics of Restraint, Oxford: Berghahn Books, pp. 99-112.
    I mean craft, i.e. techne: realising possibilities that won't realise themselves. You know: building chairs, writing sentences, defending oneself. And I distinguish it from something like bildung, which is partly what Tammy's talking about in her article.

    Put simply, martial arts are primarily about fighting. They also contribute to character development. But this is a tertiary achievement. If a martial art doesn't teach the craft of fighting, it's not a martial art.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung View Post
    I mean craft, i.e. techne: realising possibilities that won't realise themselves. You know: building chairs, writing sentences, defending oneself. And I distinguish it from something like bildung, which is partly what Tammy's talking about in her article.
    I see.

    Put simply, martial arts are primarily about fighting. They also contribute to character development. But this is a tertiary achievement. If a martial art doesn't teach the craft of fighting, it's not a martial art.
    Well, the problem is that in aikido (as I understand his founder purposes) the martial techniques are tools in a, more or less*, honji suijaku way. So not being beating people nor character developement aikido's purpose we can say it is not a martial art.

    However, a tool designed with a purpose can be used for a different one. Not the most efficient approach but it works. A hammer can be used as a weapon or as a fitness device.

    *It's a bit more complex, but you can get the idea.
    Things about Jits: How do Armbar 2.0

  4. #54
    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher supporting member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Well, the problem is that in aikido (as I understand his founder purposes) the martial techniques are tools in a, more or less*, honji suijaku way. So not being beating people nor character developement aikido's purpose we can say it is not a martial art.
    Sorry, can you rephrase this? I'm having an 'i is st00pid' morning.

    However, a tool designed with a purpose can be used for a different one. Not the most efficient approach but it works. A hammer can be used as a weapon or as a fitness device.
    I agree. My concern is that, because of unambitious training methods and dubious philosophical justifications, Aikido is sometimes a bad hammer, even though it works well as a fitness device, table leg or relay baton. (That is, it fails in its primary capacity: the craft of self-defence.)

    It has good techniques and committed practitioners, but fails at live training.
    Last edited by DAYoung; 3/29/2010 8:43pm at .
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  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whosthemaster View Post
    Did it actually happen? I mean no disrespect, I loved the article and it gave me a new found respect for the actual Aikido, but giving a knife to your attacker - I don't see that as confidence but as suicidal. Whatever the reason the practice martial arts (for fighting, for fitness, for fun, for war, for defense, even for ego), suicide doesn't seem to be a good reason.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I have only just looked in again on this thread.

    Yes it did actually happen...I was discussing Tadashi Abe Sensei over a pub lunch with TK Chiba Sensei. I asked Chiba Sensei about Abe Sensei training as a suicidal one man submarine pilot ( torpedo ) during the second world war.
    Chiba said that to the end of his natural life Abe was upset that the war had ended just days before he was to set out on his final mission, he felt that he had been cheated out of his chance to die as a Samurai....Chiba Sensei described Tadashi Abbe as one of his lifes hero's.

    Dr Ho

    I visited Australia in 1992 on vacation....I first went to Perth where I visited a local Aikido dojo ( uninvited ) I entered the dojo with good etiquette, I was totally ignored, I did not get a chance to introduce my self as I was just an invisable old guy....As the class ended and the mats were cleared away I was still ignored......

    I visited a Ki dojo near Cairns where I was made very welcome. I was asked to teach my Traditional Aikido which was very different from their style, non the less it was an enjoyable visit.

    Henry Ellis
    http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

  6. #56
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    Thank you for a marvelous article.

  7. #57
    jnp's Avatar
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    Shut the hell up and train.

  8. #58

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    Good story. I think that Aikido is no different than most TMA. Most dojos of most TMA are watered down, just not as much as Aikido yet. They all started with hard men who trained hard and fought. Now they are mostly meant for soccer moms and fat guys who want to feel like they can defend themselves, but really can't. That, of course, doesn't mean that many techniques from many TMA can't be used successfully in a fight. They can be, but only by people who train hard and practice properly.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Brown View Post
    Good story. I think that Aikido is no different than most TMA. Most dojos of most TMA are watered down, just not as much as Aikido yet. They all started with hard men who trained hard and fought. Now they are mostly meant for soccer moms and fat guys who want to feel like they can defend themselves, but really can't. That, of course, doesn't mean that many techniques from many TMA can't be used successfully in a fight. They can be, but only by people who train hard and practice properly.
    I met with TK Chiba Shihan for lunch a few months back - he commented on how modern Aikido has been watered down - I replied "Sensei, it has not been watered down - It has been vaporised" , in all the years I have known Sensei I have never seen him laugh so loudly - he then said " These people call their dojos martial arts dojos - they are no more than social clubs".

    Henry Ellis
    http://aikido-mma.blogspot.com/

  10. #60
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    Yes Akido is a martial art, unfortunately Tai Chi is also, lol

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