combat hapkido discussion

**ignatzami** · Posted On: 2/19/2010 11:04am

Originally Posted by Swaa

I never put down hapkido. My first training was traditional hapkido, and I have a black belt in it. I prefer combat hapkido because it simulate street self defense more than trad. hapkido, IMO. You are more than welcome to visit my dojang and see for yourself. As for previous comments, I'll leave them in the past.

No, it doesn't. You even said yourself you practice at half to full speed, that's not realistic. If you are not working with a partner who is doing their level best to hurt you then it's not realistic and as such is useless as self-defense.

Let's take Judo for example. Judo players train with, and compete against, other Judo players at full resistance. Your partner is trying to throw you while also trying to not be thrown. If I had to use Judo in a self defense situation I would be able to having used my art at full speed, full resistance. That's the definition of Aliveness. Aliveness makes an art useful for defense. No amount of self-defense, "for the streets", schlock will matter if you don't train properly.

Also, your website sucks.

**Swaa** · Posted On: 2/19/2010 11:29am

Sparring ISN'T self defense. Sparring is a form of duel fighting. Two people agree to combat. In the street, this isn't so. People tend to sneak to attack in the street.Sparring has rules; self defense doesn't. As for being an expert in hapkido because I have a black belt, I never said that. But I do know about street fighting, and fighting in street clothes doing high kicks and fancy moves will only get your ass kicked...badly. I trained in san shou not because I was unhappy with hapkido or combat hapkido, but to expand on my martial knowledge; to sharpen and develop other skill sets. Combat is nothing without heart. I don't care who your teacher is, if you don't have the heart to defend yourself, all that training doesn't mean ****. And heart is something I have plenty of. I can tell already by your tone that you're a know-it-all. You assume that since someone trains in a style that you disagree with, they are automatically sheep. Well, I'm the wolf in sheep's clothing. I have the utmost faith in my skills. You and no one else can tell me different. Now, if you want to continue this line of conversation, you will have to do with someone else. I perfer to seek knowledge rather than try to prove my manhood in a martial art blog.

**Goju - Joe** · Posted On: 2/19/2010 11:31am

Originally Posted by ignatzami

No, it doesn't. You even said yourself you practice at half to full speed, that's not realistic. If you are not working with a partner who is doing their level best to hurt you then it's not realistic and as such is useless as self-defense.

Let's take Judo for example. Judo players train with, and compete against, other Judo players at full resistance. Your partner is trying to throw you while also trying to not be thrown. If I had to use Judo in a self defense situation I would be able to having used my art at full speed, full resistance. That's the definition of Aliveness. Aliveness makes an art useful for defense. No amount of self-defense, "for the streets", schlock will matter if you don't train properly.

Also, your website sucks.

Speed is a very relative term.

Resistance is more applicable to judging somethings effectiveness

I.E. You can grapple with out full speed but with full resistance.

Swaa

The problem with some of the self defense techniques is you can't really practice them with fulls Resistance with out causing injury.

If you're not sparring and grappling with a reasonable element of randomness and resistance your not doing much besides just going through motions, regardless at the speed you do them.

**Swaa** · Posted On: 2/19/2010 11:43am

Originally Posted by Goju - Joe

Speed is a very relative term.

Resistance is more applicable to judging somethings effectiveness

I.E. You can grapple with out full speed but with full resistance.

Swaa

The problem with some of the self defense techniques is you can't really practice them with fulls Resistance with out causing injury.

If you're not sparring and grappling with a reasonable element of randomness and resistance your not doing much besides just going through motions, regardless at the speed you do them.

I respectfully disagree with sparring being a training tool, only because it tend to teach you the "exchange factor". You hit me, I hit you back. I'll not say it's totally useless, because it does take a deal of skill to learn timing and entry of a person. Plus, in certain cases, people tend to fight the way they train. If you never used elbows, knees, hits to the throat while sparring, you might not do so in a real fight. Notice I said "might" I did alot of sparring in my youth and enjoyed it, but right now, I'm a little too old to be sparring. Grappling is a good skill set to learn, and I agree, but I don't want to get into a grappling match in the street and get stomped out by his friends. But I agree that it is a good skill set to learn. I like your train of thought and I appreciate chatting with you.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 2/19/2010 11:48am

Originally Posted by Swaa

I respectfully disagree with sparring being a training tool, only because it tend to teach you the "exchange factor". You hit me, I hit you back. I'll not say it's totally useless, because it does take a deal of skill to learn timing and entry of a person. Plus, in certain cases, people tend to fight the way they train. If you never used elbows, knees, hits to the throat while sparring, you might not do so in a real fight. Notice I said "might" I did alot of sparring in my youth and enjoyed it, but right now, I'm a little too old to be sparring. Grappling is a good skill set to learn, and I agree, but I don't want to get into a grappling match in the street and get stomped out by his friends. But I agree that it is a good skill set to learn. I like your train of thought and I appreciate chatting with you.

Good Lord. Just once I would like someone to disagree with grappling without resorting to the catch all "grapplers fall down in street fights and and go boom friends appear and stomp."

Moved to the KMA forum so, I don't get heavy handed.

Culled:
Combat Hapkido - No BS MMA and Martial Arts

**ignatzami** · Posted On: 2/19/2010 11:53am

Originally Posted by Swaa

Sparring ISN'T self defense. Sparring is a form of duel fighting. Two people agree to combat. In the street, this isn't so. People tend to sneak to attack in the street.Sparring has rules; self defense doesn't. As for being an expert in hapkido because I have a black belt, I never said that. But I do know about street fighting, and fighting in street clothes doing high kicks and fancy moves will only get your ass kicked...badly. I trained in san shou not because I was unhappy with hapkido or combat hapkido, but to expand on my martial knowledge; to sharpen and develop other skill sets. Combat is nothing without heart. I don't care who your teacher is, if you don't have the heart to defend yourself, all that training doesn't mean ****. And heart is something I have plenty of. I can tell already by your tone that you're a know-it-all. You assume that since someone trains in a style that you disagree with, they are automatically sheep. Well, I'm the wolf in sheep's clothing. I have the utmost faith in my skills. You and no one else can tell me different. Now, if you want to continue this line of conversation, you will have to do with someone else. I perfer to seek knowledge rather than try to prove my manhood in a martial art blog.

If I can throw a trained, resisting, partner. I can throw an attacker on the street. I learn to throw a trained, resisting, partner by sparring with a trained partner.

Heart, you can have all the heart you want but that doesn't matter if you don't have the skills, and tools, to fight. You gain those tools through sparring.

Do I know everything, no. Do I know more then you, yes.

**ignatzami** · Posted On: 2/19/2010 11:57am

Originally Posted by Swaa

I respectfully disagree with sparring being a training tool, only because it tend to teach you the "exchange factor". You hit me, I hit you back. I'll not say it's totally useless, because it does take a deal of skill to learn timing and entry of a person. Plus, in certain cases, people tend to fight the way they train. If you never used elbows, knees, hits to the throat while sparring, you might not do so in a real fight. Notice I said "might" I did alot of sparring in my youth and enjoyed it, but right now, I'm a little too old to be sparring. Grappling is a good skill set to learn, and I agree, but I don't want to get into a grappling match in the street and get stomped out by his friends. But I agree that it is a good skill set to learn. I like your train of thought and I appreciate chatting with you.

Exchange factor? Sparring teaches two things:
1) How to hit/throw/submit someone
2) How to not get hit/thrown/submitted

In Judo I'm doing my best to throw my partner while doing my best to not get thrown. That's what sparring teaches. Nothing you do teaches you either of those skills anywhere near as fast as sparring will.

Grappling, if I know how to fight on the ground I also know how to get up from the ground. If I have no idea how to grapple and I end up on the ground it's a mess. I am then depending on luck to save me. If I know how to grapple I can grapple, submit my opponent, or if I deem it a safer bet, stand back up.

You don't know what you're talking about, it's obvious, and it makes me sad on your behalf.

**Goju - Joe** · Posted On: 2/19/2010 12:04pm

Originally Posted by Swaa

I respectfully disagree with sparring being a training tool, only because it tend to teach you the "exchange factor". You hit me, I hit you back.

you hit me and I hit you back is my definition of a fight. Yes you can preemptively strike first but sparring doesn't prohibit this.

I'll not say it's totally useless, because it does take a deal of skill to learn timing and entry of a person. Plus, in certain cases, people tend to fight the way they train. If you never used elbows, knees, hits to the throat while sparring, you might not do so in a real fight. Notice I said "might" I did alot of sparring in my youth and enjoyed it, but right now, I'm a little too old to be sparring.

Yes people train how they fight, if you punch a boxer on the street he's more than likely to pound you with 3 or 4 combos before he even knows what he's doing because of training.

Sparring isn't only about learning to attack by the way it's about conditioning yourself for when you get hit.

Again boxers are used to getting hit.

SO in a worse case scenario when they get hit they counter attack.

Yes on the street it's best not to get hit but we don't always get to choose the best case scenarios. Good sparring helps condition your fight or flight reflexes and autonomic response to high stress and painful situations.

Grappling is a good skill set to learn, and I agree, but I don't want to get into a grappling match in the street and get stomped out by his friends. But I agree that it is a good skill set to learn. I like your train of thought and I appreciate chatting with you.

Grappling isn't always about lying on your back trying to armbar someone.

It encompass,

Getting up from a bad situation,

Helps you beat bigger people

Throwing and tripping people.

Plus the "What if my opponent has friends" is a bit over played. If you are out numbered standing is only marginally better in that you can run away.

The other thing is gravity often means we don't necessarily get to choose if a fight goes to the ground or not.

And as far as age and resident sparring goes - as a 37 year old, yeah age is a bitch it just means you need to be smart about how you spar and grapple with and who you spar and grapple with.

**Swaa** · Posted On: 2/19/2010 12:52pm

Originally Posted by Goju - Joe

you hit me and I hit you back is my definition of a fight. Yes you can preemptively strike first but sparring doesn't prohibit this.

Yes people train how they fight, if you punch a boxer on the street he's more than likely to pound you with 3 or 4 combos before he even knows what he's doing because of training.

Sparring isn't only about learning to attack by the way it's about conditioning yourself for when you get hit.

Again boxers are used to getting hit.

SO in a worse case scenario when they get hit they counter attack.

Yes on the street it's best not to get hit but we don't always get to choose the best case scenarios. Good sparring helps condition your fight or flight reflexes and autonomic response to high stress and painful situations.

Grappling isn't always about lying on your back trying to armbar someone.

It encompass,

Getting up from a bad situation,

Helps you beat bigger people

Throwing and tripping people.

Plus the "What if my opponent has friends" is a bit over played. If you are out numbered standing is only marginally better in that you can run away.

The other thing is gravity often means we don't necessarily get to choose if a fight goes to the ground or not.

And as far as age and resident sparring goes - as a 37 year old, yeah age is a bitch it just means you need to be smart about how you spar and grapple with and who you spar and grapple with.

I know the "gang stomp" theory is played to death, but I've been in enough situations to know what can happen in a gang attack. And you're correct; any techniques you can do on the ground, you should be able to do standing up. Not all fights go to the ground. And running is a good form of self defense, lol. As for age, I'm 48, and after a good sparring session with a jiu-jitsu friend of mine, I'm usually sore as hell, LOL. Yeah, I fight smarter than I did when I was younger, but it does take it toll. As for ignatzami, please save your sadness for someone who cares. I never said sparring was useless, nor was getting stomped out a reason not to learn grappling. I see you want to verbally fight in here, and that's not I came here. If you want to share your knowledge, I'm all for it. if you want to act like the know-all, be-all, save it for someone you can impress. I thought was a place to exchange ideals, not knock others down.

**ignatzami** · Posted On: 2/19/2010 3:55pm

Originally Posted by Swaa

I know the "gang stomp" theory is played to death, but I've been in enough situations to know what can happen in a gang attack. And you're correct; any techniques you can do on the ground, you should be able to do standing up. Not all fights go to the ground. And running is a good form of self defense, lol. As for age, I'm 48, and after a good sparring session with a jiu-jitsu friend of mine, I'm usually sore as hell, LOL. Yeah, I fight smarter than I did when I was younger, but it does take it toll. As for ignatzami, please save your sadness for someone who cares. I never said sparring was useless, nor was getting stomped out a reason not to learn grappling. I see you want to verbally fight in here, and that's not I came here. If you want to share your knowledge, I'm all for it. if you want to act like the know-all, be-all, save it for someone you can impress. I thought was a place to exchange ideals, not knock others down.

One, if you are in a position to be "gang stomped" you have done something titanically wrong.

As for sharing knowledge you have yet to show you have any knowledge worth sharing.

Also, your website sucks.