Is this hazing?

**Ka-Bar** · Posted On: 2/18/2010 12:11am

This is a belt promotion "gauntlet" or test at Edson Carvalho's academy in NJ. One guy was getting promoted to brown, another to purple. This video was posted on judoforum to the shock and horror of some of the posters on there. Some going as far as to call it criminal. I've witnessed a few belt promotions, from as tame as bowing to sensei and receiving your belt to as painful as having the entire class line up to take turns throwing you. None, however, have been as long or painful as this is.

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I've been on the receiving end of some shitty treatment, including what I would consider hazing by the letter of the law, but nothing I felt was worth getting too worked up over. The only part of this video that really gives me pause is not releasing a choke after the tap, or releasing and then immediately reapplying it.

Edson is a badass, and these guys have been with him for years, so obviously they know what to expect, but is it hazing?

**Renzah** · Posted On: 2/18/2010 12:29am

I don't see any training or testing purpose in not letting someone go once they tap.

**SBG-ape** · Posted On: 2/18/2010 12:52am

Yeah, I'd say that qualifies as a hazing. To be fair, the belt tests at my gym could be considered a hazing too, but I think they're great.

The way we promote at my gym is to make the person getting promoted grapple everyone at the gym starting with the white belts & working their way up. The higher the rank they're getting the more guys we bring in that night. The point is to work someone to exhaustion, to see how far they can go with no gas in the tank & how much they retain technique when they're feeling hopelessly beat & facing fresh opponents. It lets you see just how deeply their technique is engrained & the beating keeps them humble. Typically people wrestle 12-15 guys for their blue belt & 20-30 for any belt after that. It's brutal, but like I said there's a point to it.

I don't see a point in repeatedly submitting someone without fighting to get the position or repeatedly throwing someone who isn't trying to stop it. What I see in that video is a hazing & nothing but a hazing. I don't see the people getting promoted being tested in any meaningful way.

**DSL** · Posted On: 2/18/2010 1:40am

Overall it looked ok, but man if I'm tapping and the guy isn't letting go... I'm going to start thinking MMA rather than BJJ. I can see it on blood chokes, but damn, on an arm bar?

**knive** · Posted On: 2/18/2010 4:46am

What is this testing aside from their endurance in being thrown and submitted? Ukemi skills maybe? It all seems rather passive / defensive.

As SBG-ape alludes to, it must be better to make the person being tested perform the throws etc. to see how their technique holds up under pressure.

**Renzah** · Posted On: 2/18/2010 5:03am

Originally Posted by knive

As SBG-ape alludes to, it must be better to make the person being tested perform the throws etc. to see how their technique holds up under pressure.

I inferred that this was a video specifically designed to showcase how "badass," their testing process was. I'm sure they actually had to demonstrate as well. That's why I can get behind the abuse, but the choking and armbars after the tap is what looks over the line.

**dig7six** · Posted On: 2/18/2010 5:17am

Originally Posted by Renzah

I don't see any training or testing purpose in not letting someone go once they tap.

Agreed. Maybe a slight hold to ensure the understanding of how it can go when you dont observe the tap on your opponents in the future, or what can happen if you can not escape yourself. But on a non-resistant guy just taking **** time and time again,..i dont see much of a overall purpose that couldnt be obtained in other ways.

**Larus marinus** · Posted On: 2/18/2010 5:21am

Originally Posted by Renzah

I inferred that this was a video specifically designed to showcase how "badass," their testing process was. I'm sure they actually had to demonstrate as well. That's why I can get behind the abuse, but the choking and armbars after the tap is what looks over the line.

I don't know if it's a good idea - but could it be an attempt to show the student what it feels like on 'the streets of reality', where people won't just let go when you tap? A reminder never to be complacent about the limits of ur skillz to go along with the promotion?