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  1. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2011 3:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kurtsayin View Post
    I've agreed from the beginning that there are issues with Villari and he is obviously marketing to the masses at the expense of elite MA.
    Wold you say he lied about the history of the grappling elements in what he teaches? I would.

    For example, I have several books on Chin Na, and I also work out a couple times a month with a Southern Shaolin Mantis expert who knows a good amount of Southern Chin Na, too.
    Why don't you have any judo training partners?

    Kempo is an "all in" art so anything else I learn from wushu, BJJ or whatever just adds to repertoire.
    You'd think an "all in" art could find a niche somewhere in sportfighting that approximates reality.
  2. kurtsayin is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2011 3:55pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kempo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Wold you say he lied about the history of the grappling elements in what he teaches? I would.


    Why don't you have any judo training partners?


    You'd think an "all in" art could find a niche somewhere in sportfighting that approximates reality.
    Maybe the history is total garbage. I DO have Judo training partners, and there have been a few pro fighters that are core Kempo guys: Noons, Lidell, Hackney, Zane...
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2011 3:58pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kurtsayin View Post
    Maybe the history is total garbage. I DO have Judo training partners, and there have been a few pro fighters that are core Kempo guys: Noons, Lidell, Hackney, Zane...
    You know what? SKK does not equal Hawaiian Kempo which does not equal EPAK, which etc etc etc.

    This is the same argument Shotokan people use when they hold up Machida as their front man.

    It is the same argument CMAers will use when pointing to Cung Le.

    We know that Lidell doesn't do your style of Kempo and all kempo is not one giant community of equals.
  4. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2011 4:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kurtsayin View Post
    there have been a few pro fighters that are core Kempo guys: Noons, Lidell, Hackney, Zane...
    Hackney has only had 4 fights, with 2 wins, but I'll give him credit for beating up Emmanuel Yarborough and punching Joe Son's junk a bunch of times. Liddel trained with Hackenschmit, and if you've seen the way he trains, you probably wouldn't think it was kempo if it wasn't labeled. I assume Zane means Zane Frazier? He has a 4-11-0 record, and I'm sure that since he got into cagefighting he's crosstrained (his career was 7 years long). KJ Noons? He did 3 years of kempo from 5-8 before starting muay thai, so he could pursue fighting outside of karate tournaments. I think he was awarded his black belt more as a feather in kempo's hat than him really being a kempo guy.
  5. kurtsayin is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2011 4:07pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kempo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    You know what? SKK does not equal Hawaiian Kempo which does not equal EPAK, which etc etc etc.

    This is the same argument Shotokan people use when they hold up Machida as their front man.

    It is the same argument CMAers will use when pointing to Cung Le.

    We know that Lidell doesn't do your style of Kempo and all kempo is not one giant community of equals.
    I agree it's not all equal, but Villari and Cerio can trace their lineage straight back to Pesare, Gascon, Ed Parker and further back. There is a wealth of Kempo movements and standards that is common between all of the families of Kempo.

    The only person that does exactly Chuck Liddell's style is Chuck Liddell, and the only person that does exactly your style is you. IT'S ABOUT THE FIGHTER...
  6. lionknight is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2011 4:23pm


     Style: Much striking, SAMBO, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kurtsayin View Post
    I agree it's not all equal, but Villari and Cerio can trace their lineage straight back to Pesare, Gascon, Ed Parker and further back. There is a wealth of Kempo movements and standards that is common between all of the families of Kempo.

    The only person that does exactly Chuck Liddell's style is Chuck Liddell, and the only person that does exactly your style is you. IT'S ABOUT THE FIGHTER...
    It's also about the style, the way it's trained, how good the coaches are...
  7. kurtsayin is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2011 4:54pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kempo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lionknight View Post
    It's also about the style, the way it's trained, how good the coaches are...
    Agreed, but nothing is equal in this world, so when training and style come from similar families (like American Kenpo VS Kajukenbo VS Shaolin Kempo) it comes down to the fighter.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2011 4:55pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kurtsayin View Post
    The only person that does exactly Chuck Liddell's style is Chuck Liddell, and the only person that does exactly your style is you. IT'S ABOUT THE FIGHTER...
    Oh look semantics. Exactly isn't what you said anywhere. You were talking about styles of study not a fighter's PERSONAL style. Again the style does matter.


    Funny how you are flip flopping. It isn't the style when it suits your argument. It is the style when it does.
    and there have been a few pro fighters that are core Kempo guys: Noons, Lidell, Hackney, Zane...
  9. Turrry is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2011 5:07pm


     Style: BJJ, striking

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh wow.

    Amazing how circular these arguments have become in this thread. I said it once, I'll say it again...I HATE that SKK is related with Villari. He's a terrible front man.

    I will say this, without some other stuff added, SKK is far from a complete system. That's why my instructor is also a BJJ blue belt (much like another local BJJ black belt we have teaches SKK and BJJ together)...I have wondered how I would hold up against another fighter in the ring. Maybe someday I'll get the chance to find out...
  10. Turrry is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2011 5:09pm


     Style: BJJ, striking

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Hackney has only had 4 fights, with 2 wins, but I'll give him credit for beating up Emmanuel Yarborough and punching Joe Son's junk a bunch of times. Liddel trained with Hackenschmit, and if you've seen the way he trains, you probably wouldn't think it was kempo if it wasn't labeled. I assume Zane means Zane Frazier? He has a 4-11-0 record, and I'm sure that since he got into cagefighting he's crosstrained (his career was 7 years long). KJ Noons? He did 3 years of kempo from 5-8 before starting muay thai, so he could pursue fighting outside of karate tournaments. I think he was awarded his black belt more as a feather in kempo's hat than him really being a kempo guy.
    It's hard to tell that Kempo is anyone's style when you're watching it...
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