Villari self defense effectiveness

**kurtsayin** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 12:33pm

Originally Posted by Permalost

Where would you have Villari students learn these grappling and throwing techniques? Do his schools approve of his students crosstraining at other places?

Well, the Villari's system teaches Japanese JuJutsu, Chin Na etc, and we do about 2 hours of ground-fighting a week in class (which is 6-8 adults total, btw) and yes, my instructor approves of us training in other arts. His opinion is that Kempo is hybrid anyways so learning more about specific skill-sets is good for the overall fighter.

**ChenPengFi** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 12:34pm

Originally Posted by kurtsayin

I agree with the criticisms of Villari's in general.

I am referring to YOUR rhetorical failures and the criticisms related to same.

I disagree that there is something wrong with Kempo in general. Add grappling and throwing to Kempo, and you've got a good self-defense art. It's not going to win me a UFC title, but it works in confrontations. What is bullshit about that?

What is bullshit is your refusal to use anything other than fallacy/misdirection in your responses.
You need to go read the Bullshidoka Arguments thread, over and over until it sinks in.
Click and read.

After that go back and re-read your posts here and bow your head in shame.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 12:37pm

Originally Posted by kurtsayin

Well, the Villari's system teaches Japanese JuJutsu, Chin Na etc, and we do about 2 hours of ground-fighting a week in class (which is 6-8 adults total, btw)

This is why people are so restricted when it comes to "ground fighting."
It is an abused term and means anything from kicks and punches on the ground to wrestling and BJJ.

What you just named is not submission grappling by any stretch of the imagination. Unless, of course, your instructor has many years in Judo or wrestling in his background.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 12:37pm

Originally Posted by kurtsayin

Well, the Villari's system teaches Japanese JuJutsu

Which ryu did Villari study?

Chin Na

Which system's style of chin na?

etc

huh? Does this mean Tibetan/Mongolian stuff?

we do about 2 hours of ground-fighting a week in class (which is 6-8 adults total, btw) and yes, my instructor approves of us training in other arts. His opinion is that Kempo is hybrid anyways so learning more about specific skill-sets is good for the overall fighter.

Can you describe one of your groundfighting classes?

**kurtsayin** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 12:55pm

First of all - like I said before, can everyone please chill out by about ten degrees? I HAVE YEARS OF JUDO EXPERIENCE. I have said so from the beginning, and I am a decent grappler myself. I joined an SKK studio about 2 years ago to work on stuff other than grappling.

When we do grappling class, we stretch/warm up half hour. Learn techniques about an hour (my instructor uses me or one of the other experienced wrestlers), and then we free wrestle, submission wrestle, and more for another hour. The purpose is always more focused on breaking the limb or damaging the opponent rather than tapping out, which is why I say it is complete self-defense oriented and WILL NOT lead to elite grappling champs.

**ChenPengFi** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 12:59pm

Originally Posted by kurtsayin

...I HAVE YEARS OF JUDO EXPERIENCE...

Proof of rank please.

...The purpose is always more focused on breaking the limb or damaging the opponent rather than tapping out.....

Sounds like fucking rubbish, and i don't buy it anyhow.
You should gtfo of there.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 1:01pm

Originally Posted by kurtsayin

First of all - like I said before, can everyone please chill out by about ten degrees?

I'm calm and smiling as I post.

I HAVE YEARS OF JUDO EXPERIENCE. I have said so from the beginning, and I am a decent grappler myself.

What's your rank, how many years, and who was your teacher?

When we do grappling class, we stretch/warm up half hour. Learn techniques about an hour (my instructor uses me or one of the other experienced wrestlers), and then we free wrestle, submission wrestle, and more for another hour.

That sounds pretty good. 2.5 hours is a pretty long class.

The purpose is always more focused on breaking the limb or damaging the opponent rather than tapping out, which is why I say it is complete self-defense oriented and WILL NOT lead to elite grappling champs.

How many limbs have you broken?

**kurtsayin** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 1:41pm

@ChenPengFi, let's just have a conversation. I'm a nice guy, and I just want to talk.
@Permalost, I appreciate the smile as you post. Seriously! :)

I'll ask permission of my Judo Sensei before I mention him here. I was a purple belt because I was under-age to test higher, but I did it from when I was 4 until I was 14 years old. I was told I could test for higher rank when I reached 16, but not before. I don't know if this is standard practice or not... I left because I was a stupid kid and didn't keep up with it, but after doing SKK for 2 years (I'm 25 now) and getting to work on throws and wrestling for a few hours a week, I am getting back to being a half-decent ground fighter again.

I did break a guy's arm in high-school once, but not in SKK class, and yes 2.5 hours is long, but my instructor thinks it's key to have good ground ability. Since the other 3 classes a week focus more on either Kempo techniques or hard sparring, he wants to make sure we keep progressing in ground fighting - which is by far the most tiring class of the week.

I'll send a picture of my Judo rank if my sensei gives me the OK.

Thanks again guys!

**Permalost** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 1:50pm

Originally Posted by kurtsayin

I did break a guy's arm in high-school once, but not in SKK class, and yes 2.5 hours is long, but my instructor thinks it's key to have good ground ability.

The reason I ask is this:

The purpose is always more focused on breaking the limb or damaging the opponent rather than tapping out, which is why I say it is complete self-defense oriented and WILL NOT lead to elite grappling champs.

To me, this looks ridiculous. If you guys are not limb-breakers then it is all theoretical. You can't be training every week for 2.5 hours in real grappling that focuses on damaging your opponent instead of tapping out and not be constantly injured. I'm assuming that you guys are either utilizing the tap out and just playing up the deadly angle to sound cool, or you're cranking on each other like spazzes. Also, a system of tapping is absolutely essential if you really want to learn how to damage people with submission holds.

**2groggy** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 2:09pm

Originally Posted by kurtsayin

... The video is a DEMO of various animal-inspired kempos. It's not a video of a MT kick-boxing class so I know everyone wants to snicker, ... Next time you want to show someone the concept of a joint lock, tell your demo partner to try to gouge your eyes out the whole time because that's "how fighting is" lol.

I understand and agree that techniques must be taught first with little or no resistance, and later with increasing resistance. Do you have any videos of these drills against non-compliant or combative partners?

Originally Posted by kurtsayin

Sorry about any forum etiquette I may have overlooked. I just think it's funny when people cannot separate a core style from a crappy dojo they've seen or attended. ...

This thread is specific to Villari, so we are posting about Villari rather than the style.

Now as for the etiquette side of things, take my advice - you really should abandon this thread and lurk for a while. Don't get too upset about apparently rude posts and attitudes. That's just our thing. And backing up your judo claims around here is good for your rep specifically because it is one of the sports that trains in an alive manner against uncooperative opponents.

So around here, my nidan in Goju Ryu karate means squat. My orange belt in judo means that even if I suck, but I'm really trying to throw, choke, pin or joint lock somebody who is trying to do the same to me at the same time.