Villari self defense effectiveness

**Ming Loyalist** · Posted On: 2/17/2010 11:55am

so you are in high school, right?

**patfromlogan** · Posted On: 2/17/2010 2:02pm

I think he did say that he was in HS, and I know we'd all say to get into the wrestling program, if possible. If possible because in my HS pretty much anyone could join and train, but some schools are restrictive and in Logan Utah when I and my son talked to the coach and told him it would be good to expand to include ground training to his several years of karate standup, the moron coach sneered, "Those karate guys think they're tough." So that was that. I thought briefly about kicking his face, but wtf, we just said, well, that's that, he's a dope. Turned out he is a total douche bag fuckwit and was canned years later as coach. Kind of coach that belittles some of the team members and punishes the losers etc. Too bad it took so long to dump him as the new coach is a great guy and a favorite of my kids. But too late....

But anyway, jimmyeddy, if you want cheap practical training go out for wrestling (and track and weight lifting and whatever else they offer).

And to answer your last post, yeah, if a Kenpo guy cross trains Muay Thai and boxing it's a good indication of decent training. A lot of AK (American Kenpo) sucks, but we had a AK school here for several years that sparred full contact (with gear) and went to the ground to tap out. One of the Sr. AK nearby instructors went to professional kick boxing back when it first came out and I think he influence the Utah and Wyoming AK people to become more of a realistic fighting art.

**jimmyeddy** · Posted On: 2/17/2010 6:36pm

my school doesnt offer wrestling :( but i think i might go because master boise is very good and does coach boxing and muay thai so i think that it will be good but if not i could always leave

**patfromlogan** · Posted On: 2/17/2010 7:41pm

here's a quote from an old thread on Villari: Villari's Martial Arts Center - No BS MMA and Martial Arts

Originally Posted by Berserk411

I have a Villari's story from a few years back.

I've been doing BJJ and MT since about 2001. This happened probably like 2 years after I started training around 2003-04.

I'm at a Labor day BBQ with friends in Selden NY and there's a lot of other parties going on in the neighborhood. One of the guys at the party starts talking to this guy "Karate Chris," on the nextel and he happens to be down the road at another party. They're talking about some street fight he was in the other night or something.

Karate Chris decides to come by and everyone starts talking about this guy and how tough he is, he's a black belt teacher at Villari's in Selden and he's been training since he was 4 years old. A few of them knew I was into fighting and told me I should take "private lessons" from him because he was so deadly.

So "Karate Chris" shows up, hes wearing jeans with no shirt trying to look jacked and starts showing off. Someone mentions that I'm into Jui Jitsu and he immediately starts asking questions in a demeaning manner. I'm a really quiet and non-confrontational person in these types of situations. I'm not quick with words. So he tells me that I should take some lessons from him and I involuntarily (honest) laughed. He got pissed and challenged me to a fight (as if we were in a Kung Fu movie) thinking I'd back down.

Anyway, our fight started with a double leg and ended with him getting choked borderline unconscious in about 15 seconds. Then he challenged me again, double leg, slam, kimura.

When it was done he tried to make friends with me and **** but I wasn't having it. That was the last I heard of them until now, lol.

**dig7six** · Posted On: 2/17/2010 8:32pm

Originally Posted by fug

here's a quote from an old thread on Villari: Villari's Martial Arts Center - No BS MMA and Martial Arts

Winner ^:bully:

**kurtsayin** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 1:19am

All styles aside, the 2 determining factors needed to build a balanced fighter are a good instructor and the individual fighter's demeanor or will to win. That being said, Kenpo/Kempo is as solid a foundation as any other. Villari's is not exempt from quality control issues at individual locations, but the system itself is a particularly robust system of Kempo which incorporates puzzle pieces from other proven sources:

1. Karate Pinans (loosely based on Okinawan and Shotokan styles),
2. Kempo Kata (Hybrid by GM Villari from existing Kempo Kata)
3. "Animal" techniques and dozens of other unnamed, "Kempo's." These are non-standardized forms which use kung fu strikes (like the crane's wing, tiger's claw, snake strike...) but are not truly kung fu movements. They are unique to kempo, and are more "to the point" than traditional wushu animals.
4. Various Blocking Systems (8 point Karate, Plum Tree Kempo, 11 Hands of Buddha Kempo)
4. The official 108 Combinations - the canon of Villari's system. Many of these were invented by Fred Villari from scratch and were taught exclusively in Villari Dojos until offshoot masters started to branch off from Villari's. Many of these can be seen on youtube at this point in history, but the majority still must be passed on to a student by an instructor.
5. Chin Na (chinese grappling, trapping, throwing - more thorough precursor to aikido/judo/jujutsu) and Mongolian/Tibetan wrestling (think Sumo, but a much older, less sport oriented variant).
6. There are dozens of blackbelt forms to be learned too: Twisting Tigers, Honsuki, Sho Ton Kwak, Branches of the Fallen Pine, Invincible Wall, and then there are closely guarded forms only for Master-level Villari's practitioners like "Immortal Monkey."

People rip on Fred Villari for many reasons - some of them fair - but his system of Martial Arts, when taught by a dedicated instructor and learned by a motivated student is a rock solid system. My instructor is a 25+ year veteran of Villari's, still trains himself for several hours daily, runs every single class personally, is known to FAIL people at belt tests if they deserve to fail, and has tested his skills as an urban bar-bouncer, and open-style tournament fighter. He runs kid's classes too (which is fine in my opinion) but the adult program is great. respectful, informative, and VERY challenging.

After experience in Judo and TKD, I am VERY impressed with the depth of the Vilari's SKK system, although I acknowledge that a lot of Villari's school have closed due to bad management. If you are motivated to learn to fight, and can find a good school close by, Villari's works, and that's it.

Here's a good example of some of the animal-style kempo's taught at a Villari's school: YouTube - Animals techniques

**Turrry** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 9:44am

The SYSTEM of SKK is much like any other Karate system that involves self-defense specific techniques and kata...the key is learning to USE what is being taught.

I know at my school during sparring we are instructed to use the techniques we are taught (strikes, blocks, takedowns, grappling, kempos, combinations) and if we aren't we get called on it. Also, when practicing techniques (combinations) if you miss your block/slip/evade you're getting hit period, compliance while still on your feet is not encouraged. (Only when you're being thrown does he want you to "fall").

Honestly, the name Villari makes me sick. I hate that the striking/base system I use can be associated with him...

**2groggy** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 10:32am

Here we go again...first post = thread necro + lengthy tome + defending a master or style. At least this time we get a vid to back up the argument.

Kurt, you should click over to the newbietown section to introduce yourself, and lurk a while before diving into deep discussions.

Now about the video... I watched the first minute and the fifth minute. It all looks like the typical BS that we rail against here. The "uke" or attacker throws one telegraphed step through lunge punch and then freezes while the expert throws a flurry of unanswered techniques requiring extreme precision and skill. There is no contact and no aliveness - great exercise, perhaps, but not effective training for self defense.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 10:34am

Originally Posted by kurtsayin

5. Chin Na (chinese grappling, trapping, throwing - more thorough precursor to aikido/judo/jujutsu) and Mongolian/Tibetan wrestling (think Sumo, but a much older, less sport oriented variant).

More thorough precursor to aikido/judo/jujutsu? That's just ridiculous. Mongolian/Tibetan wrestling? Mongolia and Tibet are not one place that shares the same wrestling art. Mongolian wrestling less sport oriented than sumo? What does that even mean? Have you ever watched Mongolian wrestling?

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 1/03/2011 10:58am

Originally Posted by Permalost

More thorough precursor to aikido/judo/jujutsu? That's just ridiculous. Mongolian/Tibetan wrestling? Mongolia and Tibet are not one place that shares the same wrestling art. Mongolian wrestling less sport oriented than sumo? What does that even mean? Have you ever watched Mongolian wrestling?

This is why these styles get ****. Judo is more thorough than Chin-na. Hell, I'd argue Chin-na is a sub or complimentary style like Judo Grip training. It shouldn't be taught separately because, it looks rather silly. When combined with an art it makes more sense. In other words, most CMAs contain chin-na from P. Mantis to Tai Chi.