Competition Team Tag...yes?
Posted On:4/04/2010 2:03pm
Style: FMA, DBMA, MMA
A decent portion of the Dog Brothers material is devoted to grappling with weapons, both defending against and using your own. Lots of gnarly, very dark material. We are encouraged at Gatherings to hide trainers about the body and use them if the fight gets to the grapple. Develops a very tactical awareness to the subtle movements of weapon accessing, deploying and retention. IMHO, we have developed and continue to evolve some very effective material in this area.
Originally Posted by zaohu
Am I naive, or is it more rational to think that there's not much possibility of somebody pulling a knife mid fight as opposed to first thing? Chances are, if somebody is willing to pull a knife on you they are doing so to give you as big a disadvantage as possible. So wouldn't a mid-fight knife pull be a little silly? If somebody wants the advantage, they won't risk waiting til mid-fight to take it, right? Unless you're the attacker yourself, in which case they may not have had a chance to draw a blade to defend themselves with right away.
I'm no knife expert or anything, but that's kind of what goes through my mind on the subject.
I offer some scenarios for why the knife may come out in the middle vs. the beginning of the fight.
1 - Mr. Badguy initiates fight against you, expecting to quickly handle you in short order, but your superior ass-kicking skills turn the fight against him. Now he is in the "oh-****-this-wasn't-supposed-to-happen-like-this" position instead of kicking your ass, so he decides to go for knife.
2 - Recognizing the impending attack, you decide to pull a Billy Jack and preempt Mr. Badguy's attack. **** does not go as planned, and you both go ass-over-teakettle onto the ground/broken glass/hot lava/octagon floor. He now goes for knife.
3 - Your friend, Mr. Goodguy, is getting stomped by Mr. Badguy. You go to sink a rear naked choke instead of hit him in his skull from behind with a pipe, because you do not like the idea of spending time in prison defending your chocolate starfish everytime you shower. However, your RNC sucks and Mr. Badguy tucks his chin before he passes out. He now panics and grabs for his blade.
4 - While at an Oakland Raiders home game, you stupidly do not cry silver and black tears. You are jumped and repeatedly stabbed by the NFL's most criminally saturated fanbase.
Just a few off the top of my head. As with most of my posts, this is just my $.02
Aloha, Poi :viking:
Kuha'o - Kela - Koa
Posted On:4/05/2010 12:17pm
Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali
Various FMA systems have ground work with and without a blade as part of their curriculum. Pekit Tirsia Kali has extensive ground work as does Kali Illustrisimo through the Bakbakan group. I believe Bakbakan's grappling and ground work is referred to as Higaris. FCS Kali also has a ground aspect in it and I know Tuhon Ray teaches blade work on the ground. Sayoc Kali via Tom Kier would be a great place to look. Tuhon Kier is incredible on the ground and his knife work is amazing. I would also suggest looking at Michael Blackgrave and his seamok group as well. Various other FMA and Silat systems have ground aspects and deal with the blade on the ground as well. Some of the names that have been thrown out, Janich, Hockheim, etc. are good names but I am unaware of any of them having specific skill sets or training regarding ground work. Janich's FMA background is largely based on Serrada Eskrima which is a fantastic system but not really known for anything regarding ground work. I don't know as much about Hock's backround. Also as already mentioned Dog Brothers would be a good place to look as well.
My instructors are highly ranked under Dan Inosanto in his FMA system and also have advanced ranking in BJJ under Rigan Machado. I know they are in the process of developing their own knife grappling curriculum but I haven't seen it yet and I don't think they are finished with it, though I know aspects of it have been taught to the Marines at Quantico and to the Seal's of whom my instructor was a long time member and is a current consultant. Guro Pat Tray is the head instructor's name and he would be a great person to contact as well for someone looking at realistic ground fighting when a blade is involved.
Most of what I learned prior to my start of FMA regarding blade work was unfortunately not all that practical. However, I think it is important to note that many systems that dealt with blade such as the Koryu arts did so with the perspective of wearing armor. It is easy to look at the knife defense practiced by these styles and dismiss it since they rely on very committed thrusts for the most part. However, when you realize that in order to get tanto through the armor that was worn at the time it took a very committed thrust and a slash was pretty much useless, it makes more sense. Having said that, I would love to see tanto-jutsu and blade defense be a bit more applicable in the modern world. I know a few people have worked on that but I haven't seen the results of their endeavors.
If you are truly looking for blade defense work while grappling or on the ground I suggest one of the above systems or people. Much of what is great technique in groundfighting or just grappling will get you killed when a blade is deployed. Having done some training in that situation I would say that there is no really good involved, just ways to mitigate the bad and get out of the situation as soon as possible.
Last edited by jwinch2; 4/05/2010 12:31pm at .
Posted On:4/05/2010 4:09pm
Now that I think about it I can't remember what the ground fighting aspect of Bakbakan is called. Wikipedia lists it as Hagibis but I could swear that Mark Wiley's book listed it as Higaris. I guess it doesn't matter that much. I know it exists and I don't study the system so it would be better to ask someone else anyways...
Posted On:4/05/2010 5:18pm
It appears that Lameco may have a significant ground fighting aspect as well... That DVD may be worth getting....
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