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  1. korean dragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2010 4:56pm


     Style: taekwondo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    New Electronic Scoring in Olympic TKD

    [(ATR) A new scoring system in use at the World Taekwondo Federation is being met with near universal praise.

    With the new system, fighters wear special electronic socks that create a wireless signal when they hit sensors on their opponent’s vest. The change is done to promote fairness in the sport by taking away a subjective element of the judging.

    Benaiah Torkornoo, a Ghanaian competitor in the lightweight division told Around the Rings he is in favor of the new changes.

    “It eliminates human error” he said. Every fighter now “can score their own point.”

    According to Torkornoo, the new system has already produced benefits. Referring to the match between Jung-ho Park of Korea and Malian, Oumar Cisse on Wednesday, Torkornoo said under the old subjective system of scoring, the human element may have caused judges to be biased in favor of Korea, the powerhouse of taekwondo. Without the electronic system, the judges’ hands would likely have been trigger happy to score a point for Park and “maybe the Mali guy wouldn’t have won.”

    How many points are rewarded was changed with the new system as well. Three points are awarded for a successful headshot. Previously just two were given. This was changed to encourage more acrobatic kicks with the goal of making the sport more dynamic.
    Live scoring was also introduced at the world championship.(ATR/Panasonic:Lumix)


    Torkornoo said “the sport has been lacking” that dynamism because fighters were reluctant to aim for their opponent’s head. The new rule “is more rewarding as an athlete” he said.

    While the new scoring system encourages more flair in the sport, coaches apparently don’t want their fighters to make a dramatic change in their style.

    Australian coach Jemal Hasan tells ATR “if you are trying to change your strategy straight away then you make [your fighters] disadvantaged.” His advice on how to adapt to the new system? “Let them do what they are doing [well] for years, and they’ll still be getting the points.”

    Even if his athletes won’t have a dramatic change in technique or strategy, Hasan said the new system makes taekwondo “more professional.” He added that he hasn’t heard any complaints about the new system.

    “You have no one to complain, you have to complain to yourself because you have to get the point.”

    Also being unveiled is the use of video replay. Coaches can appeala referees judgment on penalties or points.

    Torkornoo is in favor of the use of video replay, pointing to its success in the American National Football League. He thinks video replay makes taekwondo “more competitive.”
    Five fights can take place at one time during the World Taekwondo Federation world championships. (ATR/Panasonic:Lumix)


    Even administrators seemingly are in support of electronic scoring. USA Taekwondo Chairman Kevin Padilla told Around the Rings that as a former competitor “the evolution of body protectors is great.

    “It’s definitely going to change the dynamics of the game.”

    He added the new rule of two points for a spinning kick is “nice for the sport of taekwondo” because competitors will take greater risks and make the sport more appealing to audiences.

    Padilla could only find two faults. No sensors are on the helmets which means the three-point-kick is still at the mercy of a subjective referee’s decision. Additionally, he complained that the foot sensors must hit the chest sensor, which he said with a laugh, “it is equally unfair to both people. Its survival of the fittest, its survival of the smartest guy.”

    He said he thinks much like adapting to any new technology, the fighters will learn how to control their bodies to hit the correct part of their opponent’s body to score.

    “It is human nature, we learn we evolve.”

    Newly re-elected WTF President Chungwon Choue said he hopes to make taekwondo more transparent and dynamic. There was consent that these new technologies would help achieve those goals.
    The Ballerup Super Arena is the venue for the world championships. (ATR/Panasonic:Lumix)


    “A spectator at home watching this, it has to be exciting to them” Padilla said.

    “Taekwondo, you can’t compare it to track and field or swimming, or gymnastics, but I hope one day we will be in that place.”

    The world championships last until the 18th of October. They are taking place in the 1500-seat Ballerup Super Arena just outside Copenhagen.

    1000 competitors from 140 countries are participating.

    The next world championships are in 2011. The host will be determined at the next WTF General Assembly in Cairo. ]

    From http://aroundtherings.com/articles/view.aspx?id=33471
  2. korean dragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2010 5:04pm


     Style: taekwondo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know it's a little late, but this a subject I really wanted to touch on. It's seems the new system is designed to clean up the sport, and make it more exciting. Another note not mentioned in the article is scoring technique requirements. Accorrding to a friend of mine who competes on the junior national circuit, in order for a point to be counted it must land cleanly with aleast 62 lbs of pressure. To my knoledge this number is the same for all weight classes. So I'd to know what you guys think of this.
  3. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2010 5:53pm

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     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i think any "combat" sport where you need electronic sensors and slow mo replays to figure out if someone hit someone is fucking retarded.
  4. korean dragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2010 6:05pm


     Style: taekwondo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They us repays in Boxing to over turn bad decisions see "timothy bradley vs nate campbell."
  5. u1ysses is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2010 6:55pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ, MT noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As a former saber fencer, I think the TKD guys are going to find both forms of point scoring to be stupid in equally frustrating ways.
  6. korean dragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2010 7:12pm


     Style: taekwondo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by u1ysses View Post
    As a former saber fencer, I think the TKD guys are going to find both forms of point scoring to be stupid in equally frustrating ways.
    Please explain, because even though I haven't had a chance to use the system myself I'm still curious as to the pros and cons of it.
  7. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2010 8:58pm

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     Style: Muay Thai

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    Quote Originally Posted by korean dragon View Post
    They us repays in Boxing to over turn bad decisions see "timothy bradley vs nate campbell."
    that is not the same as using a replay to see if someone actually got hit.

    look, you keep bringing up how they are changing the rules etc to make wtf tkd more exciting, when they along with you somehow fail to realise that for it to be interesting to joe public (or anyone with half a brain) to the level of boxing or mma or kickboxing the entire ruleset needs to be overhauled. the tip tap point bullshit turns viewers off and its the same reason why nobody gives a **** about olympic boxing either, although at least the mindset in O boxing is more aggressive than the wait and counter snoozefest that is the WTF the consumer sees, and the reason its a cunthair away of being cut from the olympics.

    the problem basically boils down to this- would you give a gymnast who did a shitty, awkward fumbling backflip the same score as someone who does a perfect one? no. why then, in TKD, if you fold someone in half with a roundhouse kick you get the same amount of points as if you just gave them a lovetap. thats whats broken. they need to just say **** it, adopt the 10 point must system, tell the judges that kicking domination is worth more than with the fists in the same way that in thai kness are worth more than hands, and you might have something people want to watch. a fight should be scored on who BEATS THE OTHER GUYS ASS not who lands the most. these can be two very different things. it breeds a different mindset.
  8. u1ysses is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2010 9:45pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ, MT noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, my experience in saber (sabre to you purists) fencing, going from a classical fencing setting to a more competitive setting, is this:

    Dry fencing with judges:

    Judges are idiots. They get **** wrong all the time. Even people who are really good and have a good eye. Also different people set arbitrary standards for what they'll call, and I know too much about human perception to think anyone is that good at checking their bias if they have beliefs about how the match will go down.

    Electric fencing:

    The box is impartial, but fencers start to do really stupid stuff when they play to the machine, and stupid stuff passes through the arbitrary pressure (in saber none, just contact) sensors. Ostensibly, the director is supposed to throw out bullshit, but in practice, no one ever does it and I'm not even sure there is a specific freedom for directors to do so anymore -- even if it's on the books, if a guy in the olympics consistently throughout points as "that wasn't contact with the edge" or "your blade just got tangled, there was no attack, or even movement of the blade that could be imagined to have caused injury" they'd probably get lynched -- everyone wants the box to award the point.

    Not that it matters that much -- olympic saber fencing has to be like 80% double touches awarded on priority, and even on video replay challenges people can argue for ****. That's because regardless of how much certain people cling to arbitrary rules of what initiating an attack are - extension of the arm, forward movement, or some indiscernible 'seizing the moment' with no specific physical cue, etc. -- it's always an ambiguous case, and even a video replay won't please everyone.

    I think point sparring is stupid for hand to hand fighting. I saw the arguments about how it occasionally helps a fighter develop a strategy in other arenas in the Machida thread, but screw that -- that could be much better encouraged by other sets of sparring rules even if that is the case.

    As for weapons sparring, I have yet to see a system I like. I don't think there are any good solutions, to be honest, but something continuous like dog brothers is preferable to priority systems or toe touches winning on time in epee even without priority.
  9. Alucard619 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2010 12:59am


     Style: The Way of Hand and Foot

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't like it at all and it makes me very hesitant about competing in tournaments now. What happened to the old days of sparring when points were determined by raw gut wrenching power and how viciously you attacked your opponent?

    This is what I am beginning to resent about modern Taekwondo. All these bullshit changes to make it more "appealing" Who the **** cares if people want to watch or not? The point of any type of sparring is applying your basic techniques to a live opponent so as to get a somewhat realistic feel of live combat. Why the **** do I care whether some asshole wants to watch me punch and kick?

    “Taekwondo, you can’t compare it to track and field or swimming, or gymnastics, but I hope one day we will be in that place.” This is very scary. Next thing you know they'll start deducting points because you hit the guy so hard he coughed up his kidney.......

    That'd be so cool to see.
  10. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2010 1:08am

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     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alucard619 View Post

    This is what I am beginning to resent about modern Taekwondo. All these bullshit changes to make it more "appealing" Who the **** cares if people want to watch or not? The point of any type of sparring is applying your basic techniques to a live opponent so as to get a somewhat realistic feel of live combat. Why the **** do I care whether some asshole wants to watch me punch and kick?
    the thing is, people like to watch FIGHTS. the basic appeal of MMA is because it has more freedom and is closer to a fight than anything else so far. the reason no fucker wants to watch tkd is because its as realistic as an unrealistic thing from the unreal universe at the end of the disbelief spiral arm of the what the **** galaxy.


    if nobody wants to watch you fight you SHOULD be concerned because it means your fighting style sucks and is unrealistic.
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