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  1. zipit777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2010 11:41pm


     Style: Reality Self Defense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    DWK, This is not the forum for those questions...You want to see his thread he posted go to Martial Arts BS, see for yourself. This isnt about his credentials, its about "dont cast the first stone" about marketing and being turned off about something when he does something "similar" in his own way marketing related. He basically didn't have to add it in the first place...
    And please let me know when I am not allowed to correct or stand up, defend my views with a rebuttal. Thanks...
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2010 11:55pm

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zipit777 View Post
    DWK, This is not the forum for those questions...You want to see his thread he posted go to Martial Arts BS, see for yourself. This isnt about his credentials, its about "dont cast the first stone" about marketing and being turned off about something when he does something "similar" in his own way marketing related. He basically didn't have to add it in the first place...
    And please let me know when I am not allowed to correct or stand up, defend my views with a rebuttal. Thanks...
    You know what? You posted this thread in the wrong forum. So, before you chastise someone else check the rules. You are asking people to come to your school for a review. This is the CLUB review section. Your OP is an advertisment IMO.

    In other words, you inviting people to your school should have gone in two places:
    Throwdown: Bullshido Member Sparring and Training Meetups - No BS MMA and Martial Arts

    Or:

    Your Martial Art Sucks: General Martial Arts and Comedy Forum - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
  3. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/23/2010 12:05am

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zipit777 View Post
    Hey Punisher- So I found out who you are and yes, we are totally marketing to a different crowd.
    http://www.fiveanimalmartialarts.com/about.php

    I am sure you see that I try to be respectful in this entire post. But "Turning you Off" over a web page has no bearing on who or what someone is.

    I saw your post about "Turning yourself in", which was Nobel and Brave especially from this crowd, but I cant see how you would "Cast the First Stone" and post something like this and then be turned off about someone over a look of a website:

    "Mike began his martial arts training in 1986, and received his Shodan (1st degree black belt) in American Kenpo in 1991. Mike started training in Five Animal Kenpo in 2000, earning his first degree black belt in 2005. At that time, Mike became the only person in history to hold separate black belt rankings in the Five Animal and American Kenpo systems."


    That must turn the whole Bullshido crowd off on the "HISTORY" aspect of your claim.
    I don't get what you are saying. To my knowledge I am the only person to hold separate black belt rankings in both AK and FAK, both of which were awarded to me by my instructor Trevor Haines. I said as much in my "Turning Myself In" thread and that is exactly what I claim on my website. This can be easily verified on the Haines Kenpo website where I appear as Black Belts #9 and #111. http://www.haineskenpo.com/blackbelts.htm

    What I haven't added to my website yet is "In 2010 Miike was awarded the teaching title Sifu, acknowledging he has sucessfully trained students worthy of being promoted to Black Belt". This claim can be verified by the fact that I owned "Haines Kenpo" from 2006-2009 and Black Belts 129 - 159 were promoted under my supervison with #133, #139, #149, and #155 being trained by me personally.

    I am sorry if you were offended by what I said about your website. I was just trying to be honest. Your posts indicate that while certainly proud of what you do and confident of its effectvieness, you are willing to admit there is always room for improvement and you are willing to adapt as necessary. This indicates to me your training is most likely good and school would be a good place to train.

    Your website however, practically screams bullshido to me. Statements like "The only self-defense solution and a deadly and changing world", the use of the word XTREME, the psuedomiltary terminonlogy/icongraphy, and even the name of the school send giant warning signals to my bullshido alarm. As such, if I was a prospective student looking for a school I wouldn't give V-Force a second look, which very might be a loss on both of our parts.

    I can honestly say I have never encountered a school or system marketed in a similar manner to your school that wasn't bullshido. This of course does not mean your school is bullshido. I'm just concerned that there is no easy way tell that you are the real deal and not another guy in fatigues selling combative snake oil. This can lead people with experiences like me to assume you are just like the rest and not trying out your school.

    Then again, as I school owner myself, I well aware of the necessity of establishing your niche in the market and marketing specifically to those most likely to be interested in your services. Trying to be all things to all people is usually a recipe for failure. Laser focusing your marketing can turn away people like me, but that's ok as long as it is attracting sufficent numbers of the students you want.

    Once again I apologize for any offense, none was intended. I am a strong believer that a school's "brand" has to be an outward reflection of the owner, the instructors, and hopefully the students. If you feel your brand accurately represents you and what your are trying to accomplish, I am happy for you. It was a long painful process establish my own brand/identity after being assoicated with my instructor for so long.

    I wish you good luck and success in the future.
  4. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/23/2010 12:22am

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     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh and BTW, your "brand" isn't the only one that "turns me off".

    After leaving my instructor's organization I brielfy considered becoming an affliate of John Hackleman's "The Pit". Although I really like what they teach and their training methods, it was the branding the made ultimately decide against becoming an affilate. Skulls, tatoos, and Hawaiian termanology works for them, but it simply didn't for me.
  5. zipit777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/23/2010 2:23am


     Style: Reality Self Defense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I hear ya Punisher, But I dont have branding and all that other jazz. I dont wear fatigues and we dont go around in camo either, chanting and grunting. We are learning street defense, not combatives.
    It doesnt work for you and probably a lot of people and I can understand that, thats fine, as they say, you can't make everyone happy.
    I wish you good luck with your marketing and business as well ;) But I am out for different kind of person, thats all...And whatever screams Bullshido to you is your opinion, but then again, I opened my doors and people see for themselves and it doesnt mean its accurate.

    I can go on and so can you I am sure, but you are incorrect at your assumptions just because of my web page. Too bad you couldnt experience it...I should be in Sacramento area in June"ish"...I will give you a buzz if you are interested.

    Is It Fake- I originally posted this for Bullshido members only to come down and review my CLUB, the forum took it from there. I have a throwdown section and if you feel it belongs there by all means move the thread.

    By all means you can delete the post if need be. I offered a physical School/Club Review which would have included all the requirements and ratings on the list as a whole as per this section.
  6. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/23/2010 5:44am

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zipit777 View Post
    I hear ya Punisher, But I dont have branding and all that other jazz. I dont wear fatigues and we dont go around in camo either, chanting and grunting. We are learning street defense, not combatives.
    It doesnt work for you and probably a lot of people and I can understand that, thats fine, as they say, you can't make everyone happy.
    I wish you good luck with your marketing and business as well ;) But I am out for different kind of person, thats all...And whatever screams Bullshido to you is your opinion, but then again, I opened my doors and people see for themselves and it doesnt mean its accurate.
    I don't want to pick a fight, but one thing I learned when I hired a marketing and branding consultant is that whether consious or not, everyone has a "brand." Your "brand" in essessence is whatever people think and feel when they hear your name, see your logo, go to your website, etc.

    I'm sure you've heard the phrase "perception is reality". This is never more true than in marketing, and is why it is essential to have a brand that accurately refelects the reallity of your school. From what you are telling me your brand appears to not be completely in sync with what you are saying.

    You say "I dont wear fatigues and we dont go around in camo either, chanting and grunting. We are learning street defense, not combatives", owever "combatives" appears on the home page of your website multiple times and in the various pictures and video clips on your site you are shown wearing miltary style clothing and your students wearing camo.

    I lost a lot of money during my first three years as a school owner and a main reason was my "brand" didn't accurately convey who I was and what I was trying to teach. As such a lot of students who would have been great for my school never came to my door. Things didn't turn around for me until I changed my brand to make sure people's perceptions met my school's reality.

    If you are serious about your offer, I'd love to see if we can work something out while you're in Sacramento. I teach out of a local Christain school and am planning to have a seminar series to help raise money for various school trips and such. If you'd be willing to dontate a couple of hours of your time I could check with the principal and see if we can reserve the gym and add you to the calendar for sometime in June. We'd make it a donation only event and anything above and beyond your expenses would go to the school. Depending on what you want to do, we could make it like a traditional seminar where you demostrate and teach whatever you want or more like a throwdown where we invite west coast bullshido members to come and help you test your concepts a techniques.

    If this sounds like something you'd be willing to do, let me know, and as the date gets closer you and I can work out the specifc details.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/23/2010 8:54am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zipit777 View Post
    By all means you can delete the post if need be. I offered a physical School/Club Review which would have included all the requirements and ratings on the list as a whole as per this section.
    This is the area for you or a student to REVIEW YOUR SCHOOL. You make the invite in a section where people are going to read the thread. People tend to glance over this area or, do what Punisher did and critique the comments and website. Since there is no SCHOOL REVIEW, this has turned into a debate about your website.

    You have 35 views. The crappiest thread in trollshido averages over a hundred. Same with YMAS.
  8. zipit777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/23/2010 10:21am


     Style: Reality Self Defense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I appreciate your input Punisher and I am serious about stopping by in June, but as you have also stated perception is reality, I also did the re-branding myself, thats why I got out of the Camo's a couple of years ago...
    Thanks for the tips and I will take them into consideration in the future.

    As far as coming to see ya, We can do it either way, I am always up for anything...I will PM you when the date gets closer....I always like to help a cause as well, so if you email me with the information, I will plan around your dates.
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