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  1. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2010 12:37am

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As an engineer by training and profession, I am curious on why you consider your approach to be "scientific".

    I'm not trying to imply that it is or it isn't. I just want to know what that term means to you. As other posters have pointed out, many martial arts have claimed to be "scientific", some taking more liberal uses of the term than others.
  2. zipit777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2010 12:53pm


     Style: Reality Self Defense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Physics, Dynamics and Mechanics. How something is delivered, How something is designed for maximum effectiveness, We look at angles, body motion, incorporation of short range power which incorporates muscles for maximum damage, speed for power (A bullet is a great example). If I took a bullet , held it in my hand and threw it at someone as hard as I can, it would do no damage. The same bullet chambered in to a mechanical system to deliver the force from the powder to create speed does the damage. We use speed and tightening up on impact and then releasing, instead of driving threw.
    A standard boxing punch would most likely use the shoulders, biceps, some triceps, and body torque. We modify it to add your pectorals and lats to maximize force while incorporating the other aspects.
    We position our body, our footwork to create a better base for that delivery. We incorporate our full body on certain strikes.
    We understand that being tense all the time, depletes our muscles of oxygen, thus quicker fatigue. So we change that mental training as well.
    The angles of our stances to create spring which equals force without effort. These are the things we THINK upon.
    However, the thing to remember, everything is situational.
    It is the mindset, it is always THINKING destruction instead of knock out.

    Finally we look to the human body for its weakest points or disrupt patterns of vision, breathing, balance but making sure EVERYTHING works under full speed and full strength of a skilled attacker.

    These are just a few aspects of our training. We go over in detail WHY you do it, not just the HOW TO. We also want our students and instructors to know the pain associated some what to the strikes.

    So the actual word "SCIENCE" is used with great importance.

    I hope this helped a little.
  3. Wing-Kwan-Fu is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2010 3:57pm


     Style: Standup, Ground-fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You might want to Google a few good definitions of the word "science" to see why the way you use it is inaccurate and a bit silly, but more worrying is the way you portray the alleged differences between your punch and a boxer's. By pretending that any hard-contact martial artist, and above all a boxer, doesn't understand (or at least employ) such simple concepts as "using footwork to create a strong base", "not wasting energy being tense", and most laughably "using your pectorals", you come across as ignorant, and worse, as the wrong type of trainer. Specifically, the type who ignores the importance of hiring good teachers and working hard at the right types of drills in favor of emphasizing the FANTASTIC and SCIENTIFIC uniqueness of your theoretical approach. Again, I hope to come soon and see if your training is better than your copy, and I do hate to harp on your presentation, but Bullshido always seemed to me to be about cutting through the meaningless and counter-productive hype in martial arts.

    Oh, and "through" is a different word than "threw".

    EDIT: I was trying to refer to how science is about a systematic approach to thought, rather than WE USE ANGLES, or whatever other concepts you employ just the same as everyone else, although they don't blab about their so-called scientific approach. But good on you for only replying to that very brief, throw-away comment as well as my JOKING poke about your terrible writing, rather than my valid points about your ridiculous hype-based attitude towards marketing and training theory.

    EDIT EDIT: "You don't know me, MAN" and "That's like, your opinion, MAN" are lines of reasoning as weak as any other aspect of your communication skills. I bet you are a good fighter! Maybe also a good trainer! All the same, am I not allowed to comment on your presentation? Doesn't the "scientist" in you want to understand what you're doing wrong outside of the gym as much as in it?

    I will stop boring you and the other good readers. I am sure you will do well advertising to the lowest common denominator! (Not sarcasm, I really am sure you will.)
    Last edited by Wing-Kwan-Fu; 2/22/2010 6:23pm at .
  4. zipit777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2010 4:43pm


     Style: Reality Self Defense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are just beginning to bore me with your grammar corrections. I really dont think anyone cares what you think, nor do I...As I have stated that I can keep going on the subject, but am considerate of boring people, which you seem not to care about with your nonsense response.
    You want to see the science for yourself ?, then come on down. I can say anything on a post, but if you don't experience it first hand, how can you come up with any conclusions? Then it is just opinion. I am not into opinions that a martial artist thinks they are this or that. I want to experience it.
    You think I don't know what I am talking about? Come on down to the open house when you are free. That's the whole idea of this post.

    Lets compare training methods, then come out with your review. You have no idea of who I am or what I do, what drills I teach, How hard I hit or how fast I am. So once again, your post is invalid. You are reviewing me over speculation. Now how's that for silly.

    BTW, Bullshido is about bringing out FACTS, not opinions.
    Last edited by zipit777; 2/22/2010 5:04pm at .
  5. zipit777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2010 5:00pm


     Style: Reality Self Defense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Had to throw this in since his (Wing-Kwan-Fu) first "remark" was I should "google" the word science. I guess he didn't.
    Well here it is, and let me know if it sounds "silly".

    sci·ence –noun
    1.
    a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation ofgeneral laws: the mathematical sciences.
    2.
    systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
    3.
    any of the branches of natural or physical science.
    4.
    systematized knowledge in general.
    5.
    knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.
    6.
    a particular branch of knowledge.
    7.
    skill, esp. reflecting a precise application of facts or principles; proficiency.

    —Synonyms
    7. art, technique, method, discipline.


    Wing- Let me know which one's in BOLD do not apply to my "SCIENCE" (Caps Your Favorite)
    Last edited by zipit777; 2/22/2010 5:05pm at .
  6. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2010 7:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I do not call my martial art a science, but we do use the scientific method as a basis for our techniques and training.

    In short:
    1.Define the question
    2.Gather information and resources (observe)
    3.Form hypothesis
    4.Perform experiment and collect data
    5.Analyze data
    6.Interpret data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis
    7.Publish results
    8.Retest (frequently done by other scientists)

    The iterative cycle inherent in this step-by-step methodology goes from point 3 to 6 back to 3 again.

    IMO a key to truly being "scientific" in your approach is testing you methods, which by your invitation to others to train, indicates that you are willing to do so.

    Even more important than testing is the willingness to except the results and adapt as necessary.

    Hypothetically if someone took you up on your offer and showed an ability to routinely defeat you and your students in whatever test you design, how would you react and what would your subsequent actions be?
  7. zipit777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2010 7:39pm


     Style: Reality Self Defense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Hypothetically if someone took you up on your offer and showed an ability to routinely defeat you and your students in whatever test you design, how would you react and what would your subsequent actions be?"

    That is the reason Xtreme is where it is today, because I had plenty of questions when I was taking traditional martial arts, or I saw problems with aspects of self defense.

    So I would Adapt, Fix, Change, Secure....That is why I call my fighting method a 'concept', it is always growing, looking for things that are better and more effective. However, No system is punch proof. It is always up to the individual. There are many instructors, founders, grand masters and so on, I'm sure many people on this board can defeat.
    Is it about that?

    No, it is about the individual understanding of the concepts, theory and philosophy's of what that system is all about and replicating it successfully.

    As you have stated in your previous post I agree 100% and thus we are scientific, not just by theory, but by what defines it. However, we are more than that. We are a collection of successful tactics and techniques that are effective and damaging, and plain brutal with a scientific backing.

    Again, the purpose of this post was for someone to "take me up on the offer", exchange training methods, go through one month of my classes and report honestly.

    In Closing:
    I fight to destroy because I know I can lose. However, I fight to destroy first. understand?

    Also, most people are unwilling to see outside their circle, some martial arts and self defense systems have a cult thinking in their training, they put this superpower over the Head Instructor and/or system that it is unbeatable...

    I have seen past that. Again, good question, I hope everyone feels the same way I do and would answer honestly. I am always up for the challenge of not having an answer for something, wouldn't you agree?

    You seem like an intelligent guy, if you have the ability to stop by, use the email at the origin of this post and email me. We can talk about details off line.
  8. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2010 9:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd like to stop by, but I'm CA and you are in NY. It's not exactly practical.

    And honestly, your marketing approach turns me off, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. You are obviously marketing to a specific type of student/customer which is just plain smart business strategy.
  9. zipit777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2010 10:28pm


     Style: Reality Self Defense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey Punisher- So I found out who you are and yes, we are totally marketing to a different crowd.
    http://www.fiveanimalmartialarts.com/about.php

    I am sure you see that I try to be respectful in this entire post. But "Turning you Off" over a web page has no bearing on who or what someone is.

    I saw your post about "Turning yourself in", which was Nobel and Brave especially from this crowd, but I cant see how you would "Cast the First Stone" and post something like this and then be turned off about someone over a look of a website:

    "Mike began his martial arts training in 1986, and received his Shodan (1st degree black belt) in American Kenpo in 1991. Mike started training in Five Animal Kenpo in 2000, earning his first degree black belt in 2005. At that time, Mike became the only person in history to hold separate black belt rankings in the Five Animal and American Kenpo systems."


    That must turn the whole Bullshido crowd off on the "HISTORY" aspect of your claim.

    Mike and Henry (Yeah I figured who Wing was as well)- My system is all about the individual succeeding in life and in combat. That is my mission and goal. I dont self rank myself, I dont lie about my background and I dont add fluff. What is your objective here? What do you want out of this post? To look more educated or smarter, well I sure as hell know that doesnt mean anything in the streets.

    Once again and finally to everyone, I am not a web page designer. I am a Reality Urban Self Defense Instructor, I offered a FREE MONTH of training for ALL Bullshido members to give a review of my school and classes. So far, no takers - Offer still stands (You can bring someone with you if you feel uncomfortable)

    I end with this. Email me when you will be there so I can see if I am teaching a seminar or something and to make sure I am not outside the USA or on Vacation. Otherwise, ACTA NON VERBA - By Actions, Not Words.

    You want to see what XTREME is about? Walk in my door, and with respect and you will get the same courtesy and you will see first hand and then Maybe, Just Maybe you might leave with a different opinion then when it first started on this post.
    Last edited by zipit777; 2/22/2010 10:39pm at .
  10. dwkfym is offline
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    Yours truly

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2010 11:18pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     PDS Rifles Style: Univ. Florida Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    his main objective was to simply state he personally does not like your marketing tactics. He even said you have a valid reason for your marketing strategy. Did it warrant that response? Is this a specific allegation that Punisher's credentials are wrong? I'm not saying we won't be "turned-off" but please explain why anyone would be turned off about the history aspect of his marketing.
    Last edited by dwkfym; 2/22/2010 11:29pm at .
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