Brain Injuries and Combat Sports

[TheRuss]

You seem to assume that every boxer that doesn't make it to championship level automaticaly has a crap life

No. People who count on making it to that level and then don't wind up in ****.

and is crippled.

20% rate of CTE, probably higher.

Well I've never won anything and I'm doing just fine and enjoying my craft.

If by "doing just fine" you mean "fucking retarded", and I very much fucking doubt you are an elite-level competitor, although you certainly have the characteristics of brain damage.

You seem to assume boxers hate boxing and do it out of desperation

I assumed no such fucking thing. The people I know who participated in contact sports, especially at an elite level, did so because they loved it - myself included. You don't think Harry Carson loved football?

and are aware of the risks

No.

No, they aren't aware of the risks.

Ten years ago, nobody knew a Goddamned thing about CTE, and right now most people still don't. And unlike you, it's not their fault - they just haven't heard.

And by the way the article you posted about sweet jimmy is pure anecdotal bullshit, most of the listed boxers died of circumstance completely unrelated to boxing, and what does boxing has to do with Chuvalo's wife and sons deaths?!

It's not "anecdotal bullshit", it's a longitudinal study of a particular group of sportsmen who "went down in history" and yet somehow didn't turn out great like in all the movies. In your fucked-up little world, Mike Webster's* four Super Bowl rings are somehow more valuable than his ability to remember his son's birthday or live past the age of 50.

Jesus Christ, you are dense like uranium.





* Bullshido ate the link - look up "A tormented soul" on ESPN.com.

[DAYoung]

Russ, has someone already posted that much-cited John Hopkins study on MMA vs. Boxing injuries?

To me, it suggests that it's possible to have high-intensity, full-contact, multi-range fighting, without boxing's risk of brain trauma. It just takes the right kind of rules and regulation.

In other words: have cake, eat too. We don't have to play the 'fighting = high risk = HULK SMASH = ROAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR' game. There are still risks, but not this one.

[TheRuss]

Russ, has someone already posted that much-cited John Hopkins study on MMA vs. Boxing injuries?

I don't think so.

Are you referring to Bledsoe et al., "Incidence of injury in professional mixed martial arts competitions" (PDF)? Because I'm split on that one.

I expect boxing to involve a lot more head trauma than MMA because of both the natures of the sports (you can lose a MMA fight without ever getting punched or kicked) and the rules (stoppages vs. eight counts, glove size, etc).

But on the other hand, my reservations about our current diagnostic ability apply to most of the studies currently being conducted. We aren't going to have a really good idea of what's gone on until the autopsy results start coming back or someone has a breakthrough.

[DAYoung]

I don't think so.

Are you referring to Bledsoe et al., "Incidence of injury in professional mixed martial arts competitions" (PDF)? Because I'm split on that one.

I expect boxing to involve a lot more head trauma than MMA because of both the natures of the sports (you can lose a MMA fight without ever getting punched or kicked) and the rules (stoppages vs. eight counts, glove size, etc).

But on the other hand, my reservations about our current diagnostic ability apply to most of the studies currently being conducted. We aren't going to have a really good idea of what's gone on until the autopsy results start coming back or someone has a breakthrough.

Yes, that's the study. It seems reasonable that the sport and rules minimise brain trauma relative to boxing (there's obviously a higher risk than gardening or chess). But, yes, I take your point about diagnosis.

[antman]

saw this in another thread but it is appropriate here:
http://www.kwtv.com/global/story.asp?s=12032734

[Dsimon3387]

I suspect 'Kung fu' is a perfectly apt name for Jeet Kune Do.

As I understand it, 'kung fu' is similar to 'craft' or 'skill'. Perhaps it's a loose equivalent of 'techne' in Greek, and 'jutsu' in Japanese.

So 'Jeet Kune Do' would be one part of the broader category, 'Kung Fu'. This is why Lee saw it as 'the true way': unalloyed fighting skills, purified of stagnant sediment, e.g. ritual, superfluous forms.

Teh Techne "Greek" is a good analogy for Kung Fu. Not so much Jutsu. The implication is one of development... as in one develops the capacity progressively through refinement and betterment of the self and the skill follows from that self development. This skill culminates when it is recognized as such in the community through veneration of our humanity.

Technos is similar because unlike the Logos the Technos develops along the lines of Aristotle's common horse sense. What makes them analogous is that both imply the working of oar'sman, the barber, the chef, more than the workings of the governor, the teacher, or the elite athlete.

[DAYoung]

Teh Techne "Greek" is a good analogy for Kung Fu. Not so much Jutsu. The implication is one of development... as in one develops the capacity progressively through refinement and betterment of the self and the skill follows from that self development. This skill culminates when it is recognized as such in the community through veneration of our humanity.

Technos is similar because unlike the Logos the Technos develops along the lines of Aristotle's common horse sense. What makes them analogous is that both imply the working of oar'sman, the barber, the chef, more than the workings of the governor, the teacher, or the elite athlete.

As far as I know, jutsu is similar. An emphasis on skill and development (craft) - and in some cases, on betterment of character, in the proper community.

"As Karl Friday has persuasively revealed, many of the old koryu ̄ 古流 schools associated jutsu with the heightening of moral and spiritual qualities.34 Accordingly, Michael Random warns readers of the dangers of ‘‘making the way of do far too spiritual and . . . rejecting bugei-jutsu as if it were an illness.’’35 A dehistoricized do ̄/jutsu dichotomy can easily conceal this reality, and, following Donn Draeger,36 perhaps many Western martial artists have too readily accepted this distinction." - http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/philoso...9.2.young.html

[Dsimon3387]

As far as I know, jutsu is similar. An emphasis on skill and development (craft) - and in some cases, on betterment of character, in the proper community.

"As Karl Friday has persuasively revealed, many of the old koryu ̄ 古流 schools associated jutsu with the heightening of moral and spiritual qualities.34 Accordingly, Michael Random warns readers of the dangers of ‘‘making the way of do far too spiritual and . . . rejecting bugei-jutsu as if it were an illness.’’35 A dehistoricized do ̄/jutsu dichotomy can easily conceal this reality, and, following Donn Draeger,36 perhaps many Western martial artists have too readily accepted this distinction." - http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/philoso...9.2.young.html

Well no doubt that the Japanese culture as was the case with the Korean culture venerated the Chinese concepts that came in via Confucian and Neo confucian. The Heain nobles probably were very similar in some ways to the Chinese civil servants... Its a question of where the similarities end and the changes begin... a complex point to argue under any conditions.

[Kuma]

So, That which does not kill you,
Postpones the inevitable.

[The Question]

So, That which does not kill you,
Postpones the inevitable.

Living kills you.