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  1. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2010 7:26am


     Style: Bowie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kcvmac View Post
    "Banned From Boxing: The Forgotten Grappling Techniques of Historic Pugilism"
    Damn skippy. Anyone here know about grappling in classic boxing?
    There was a crapload of grappling in old style BKB. Throws and trips were common and there were at least 3 different "head locks" taught, all named "Chancery," including what is now often referred to as the guillotine.

    In classical BKB, it was all standing grapples, of course. The round ended when someone hit the ground. However, it was pretty common in Physical Culture for armatures, self defense minded folk, and sometimes professionals too, to cross-train in both BKB and Wrestling.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  2. judoist is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2010 7:22am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!


    This form of boxing guard was popular back in the days grappling and even ground work was legal in boxing. It's primary purpose was to keep the other guy away from you. It may seem stupid, but before the advent of Marquis of Queenberry rules, there was no ban on wrestling. In particular, I have heard of a "cross buttock" throw ( very similar to the koshi-guruma in Judo). Iain Abernethy Sensei (5th Dan Shotokan Karate) has also rediscovered the use of this throw within some Shotokan kata.
  3. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2010 11:45am


     Style: Bowie

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoist View Post
    This form of boxing guard was popular back in the days grappling and even ground work was legal in boxing.
    Strictly according to the rules, standing grappling was legal. Trips, throws, locks, some strangles, etc. Ground work wasn't possible because the round ended when one participant hit the ground. Then they would Toe the Scratch and start the next round. Of course, that didn't preclude sneaking in a knee-ride on the way down or "accidentally" landing on top of your opponent at the end of a throw.

    It's primary purpose was to keep the other guy away from you.
    It also served to keep distance from the fists. i.e., To make it harder to get hit and have more time to see it coming.

    It may seem stupid, but before the advent of Marquis of Queenberry rules, there was no ban on wrestling. In particular, I have heard of a "cross buttock" throw ( very similar to the koshi-guruma in Judo).
    There are multiple throws in historic literature labeled as Cross-Buttock. Without exception they are all some form of trip or hip-toss which pulls or draws the person being thrown (Uke in Japanese parlance) across the hip of the thrower. Sometimes it was sort of o goshi/koshi garuma type throw, lifting the opponent up on the back. Sometimes it was nearly a tai otoshi.

    In once instance it was shown as the the uke and tori being back to back, tori lifting uke on to his back, for the throw.

    But always drawing "across" the "buttock" for the throw. I personally favor a sort of cross between seoinage / koshigaruma for the throw because that seems to be what is most often represented in the historic manuals.

    Iain Abernethy Sensei (5th Dan Shotokan Karate) has also rediscovered the use of this throw within some Shotokan kata.
    Nice fella. When I get my latest repub project done, I'll post a link on his forum too.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
    Last edited by lklawson; 6/22/2010 11:47am at . Reason: sp
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