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  1. Eddie Hardon is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/10/2010 10:14am


     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BaronVonDingDong View Post
    I've often wondered if the C19th slang term "milling" (to describe boxing) comes from this stance and hand position. As in, when a fighter revolves his fists counter-clockwise when sizing up his opponent, it looks like a windmill, or the revolution of a mill stone.

    Alternatively, it could just mean that when you're being beaten up, you've "been through the mill". OED says that it's also a term for breaking in horses.
    Dunno, but I tend to think that Milling may be a corruption of "Windmilling" - by which the punch is thrown like an Overhand Cricket Bowl. Watch early Lennox Lewis, who consistently threw it as per his amateur days until he learned to throw it straight from the Shoulder. May be the "Whitechapel Windmill" got his name for all-action or for throwing lots of overhand punches? Who knows? I've never seen any actual film of him in action.

    In most of the old pics, the boxer is either rigidly Upright, which I suppose was because of the slow exposure of most cameras at that time. It also helped that they looked, er, "purposeful". As technology improved it seems that pugilists opted for the posed "Action shot" to denote "Energy" and Purpose but I could be completely wrong. Other shots show the opponents facing off just before he Bell rang and this was wholly for the photographers.

    Mind you, many of the old films show the likes of Jack Johnson with Hands held low and palm up.

    Perhaps, boxers got better in their understanding of Defence, Stance, etc.

    BTW, I'm currenlty reading a fantastic photographic essay of the Great Harry Greb, complete with his actual fight Record. An incredible labour by the author and helps explain why it cost me 38 from Foyles.

    But worth it.

    Cheers
  2. HereBeADragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 11:12pm


     Style: Limalama, Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can anyone recommend any good books on the classic boxing method? I'd like to compare the two and play with some of the oldies from that tool box.
  3. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 11:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeADragon View Post
    Can anyone recommend any good books on the classic boxing method? I'd like to compare the two and play with some of the oldies from that tool box.
    http://stores.lulu.com/lawson

    Most of Kirk's republications of these classic manuals are (incredibly generously) available as free downloads.
  4. kcvmac is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 8:57pm


     Style: The grapply boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Banned From Boxing: The Forgotten Grappling Techniques of Historic Pugilism"
    Damn skippy. Anyone here know about grappling in classic boxing?
  5. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 9:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kcvmac View Post
    "Banned From Boxing: The Forgotten Grappling Techniques of Historic Pugilism"
    Damn skippy. Anyone here know about grappling in classic boxing?
    Well, Kirk literally wrote the book on that subject and he's a member of this forum, so stick around.
  6. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 10:29pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I seem to remember Bas spending some time demonstrating the merits of the vertical fist in his Big DVDs of Combat. I'll have to dig them out & see... unless anyone has that info right at their fingertips?
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  7. MC Kwai is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 10:42pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: true styles of Kungfu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeADragon View Post
    Can anyone recommend any good books on the classic boxing method? I'd like to compare the two and play with some of the oldies from that tool box.
    I have a digital copy (pdf) of Jack Dempsey's book " Championship fighting "

    supposedly out of print and rare but what do I know


    anyone interested pm me email
  8. MC Kwai is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 11:13pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: true styles of Kungfu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MC Kwai View Post
    I have a digital copy (pdf) of Jack Dempsey's book " Championship fighting "

    supposedly out of print and rare but what do I know


    anyone interested pm me email

    I assure you the offer is genuine



    :eng101:
  9. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2010 12:09am

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MC Kwai View Post
    I have a digital copy (pdf) of Jack Dempsey's book " Championship fighting "

    supposedly out of print and rare but what do I know


    anyone interested pm me email
    Ol' Jack Dempsey. That was a hard, sly mofo. I love watching old vids of his fights.

    Jack Dempsey Book in PDF

    http://coxscorner.tripod.com/jdempsey.html









    The guy was in tremendous shape.





    (he beat Willard to hamburger in this fight, btw)

    YouTube- King of KO Jack Dempsey vs Jess Willard HeavyWeight Boxing World Championship
    Last edited by Jim_Jude; 5/14/2010 12:16am at .
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  10. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/14/2010 2:49am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Even if it there were merit in using a vertical fist (blah) the old timey palm up guard just seems like a horrendous position to fight from. The bones across the back of my hands isn't something I would want to encourage people to make incidental hits to in BK, but worse it makes it more cumbersome to pat/parry punches with your open hand from that position.

    Sometimes I will wind up doing a vertical fist punch but only because the person closes and winds up interrupting my reverse punch (cross) before the shoulder turns. I think if the person is a little too close that's a better position to drive the punch into them than turning the elbow over prematurely and losing power. It's not a chun punch though, it's the same motion I would do on any normal punch stuffed before it completes.

    (+2 cents)
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