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  1. #21
    Rock Ape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by socratic View Post
    Is a personal sword made by a legit smith likely to have the chrysanthemum on it, though? I would have thought such an image was restricted for either those closely affiliated to the imperial family or the army or something. You'd think your average bushi walking around with a chrysanthemum sword would get in a lot of trouble.
    There's a couple of issues which need to be remembered.

    Gunto kosheri (war sword mountings) were manufactured pretty much in mass by a group of authorised companies, as such, they were all very similar in specification, the only item of kosheri that might be suited to the sword owner (officer class) would be the tsuka (handle) the furniture itself more often than not would be standard, an example of such below:



    Note the mon (crest) on the sleeve-ring (fuchi) and the hand guard (tsuka); this was also replicated on the pommel (kashira) of the sword handle and this was the standard mass-produced spec, there's really no direct or specific tie to the Imperial family. And cirtainly not indicating the owner was bushi (samurai or warrior) stock.

    However; occastionally you will find kosheri carrying non stock mon (family crest) an example here:



    More often than not, if you found this, you'd found a much older sword mounted into gunto kosheri.

    Here is a typical example of standard mounting:



    The chrysanthemum theme can be seen again in the menuki (ornament) mounted under the maki-ito (wrap of the handle)
    Last edited by Rock Ape; 2/02/2010 10:23am at .
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

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  2. #22
    solves problems with violence supporting member
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar
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    i'm glad that dave (hugo, etc.) is weighing in on this thread, as he has actual knowledge to contribute. i only had my suspicions, and the small amount of knowledge that i have picked up from visiting museums, and speaking with my father in law about his katana.

    thanks, dave!
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
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  3. #23
    Rock Ape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    thanks, dave!
    I am that LARPER ! lol
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

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  4. #24
    Wounded Ronin's Avatar
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    Were those Pacific War era swords reliable weapons, though? I mean, did they have problems with breakage, or were they on the contrary adequate for carving up the enemy at close range?
    Best Vietnam War music video I've ever seen put together by a vet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDY8raKsdfg

  5. #25
    King Sleepless's Avatar
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    LOL,

    Thanks Hugo! I was about to ask a bunch of questions and clarify a bunch of stuff, but was overwhelmed by your knowledge. Thanks!

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    Were those Pacific War era swords reliable weapons, though? I mean, did they have problems with breakage, or were they on the contrary adequate for carving up the enemy at close range?
    With the nature of the conflicts in the Pacific, it's doubtful that a single blade racked up enough kills for breakage to be an issue before its operator was shot, bayonetted, flamed, or buttstroked into oblivion.

    Hell, even a certifiably shitty State Fair McSamurai Sword will kill someone if swung at speed. Probably not in a cool, 10-second delayed fountainous blood spray sort of way - but I'd wager you'd get about the same fatal result hitting someone in the side of the face with any sort of sharpened metal.

  7. #27
    Rock Ape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    Were those Pacific War era swords reliable weapons, though? I mean, did they have problems with breakage, or were they on the contrary adequate for carving up the enemy at close range?
    Consider the reason why Japan went to war with the US kicking off with Pearl. Japan's natural resources were diminishing and they needed to open a means of gaining those resources from other means (A simplistic explanation I grant you). At the start of the war for Japan, many shin and kaigunto were of quite a good standard considering they were being, what would otherwise be considered, as "mass produced" in terms of sword manufacture. The typical process wouldn't include folding the steel although they would be forged and cooled in water, this resulted in a fairly resistant toshin which kept a reasonable edge and was easy to maintain however; as the raw material for these swords eventually became scarce, typically rail sleepers were used and the manufacturing process changed.

    The steel used in rail sleepers wasn't of the same quality and grade normally used in sword manufacture additionally, to speed the process, the steel would be forged and elongated then placed into a stamping machine which would create its final shape, the blade was then cooled using oil rather than water, the reasoning behind this was that oil cooled the steel at a slower rate thus there was less chance that the blade would crack or deform as it cooled. The stamping process greatly reduced the time a person would have spent achieving the same however, the stamp was not as accurate in the way it struck the steel.

    Remembering that prior to the toshin being plunged into water, it would be straight, the cooling process together with the differing thickness's of the toshin from the cutting edge (ha) through to the spine (mune) will cause the blade to cool at differing rates - thus creating its curvature. This is why no two traditionally constructed toshin are ever identical, even if made by the same smith.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

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  8. #28
    vaquero de las nalgas's Avatar
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    Great thread, one of the better ones I've read on this site. Good job.

  9. #29
    Rock Ape's Avatar
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    Just for everyone's information, the person making the original post is most likely PAWEL NOWAK a well known scammer.

    Google if you care to waste your life reading up on this fuckwit. Needless to say, he's been trying this **** for quite some time.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

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  10. #30

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    Ugo Shteegleetz, from what you explain it seems to me that the chrysanthemum insignia is quite specific to the military's equipment (at least during the War), rather than something any old bushi would keep on their sword/sword parts. So this sort of answers my question and reaffirms my assumption; a sword with a chrysanthemum is probably a mass produced one, unless there were indications it was an amalgamation of military-parts and a privately owned sword.
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32

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