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  1. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2010 11:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lynn Thompson of Cold Steel trains a lot and has a high level of weapon skills (there are actually videos of him sparring though) and he's quite a large man as well.
  2. SBG-ape is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2010 11:42pm


     Style: Jiu-jitsu & HEMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's a big difference though, between a large guy who spars athletically & a large guy who spends his time explaining that he's a better fighter because he doesn't spar & that other people should stop sparring too. People aren't saying: "he's fat, so lets make fun of him for not sparring". I think what people are saying is: "he doesn't spar, so lets make fun of him for being fat".

    Part of being a serious martial artist is striving to improve yourself. Part of being a LARPer is pretending that you're better than you really are. There are people who work hard, training & fighting athletically, but are overweight. Hugh Knight is in bad shape & has built a training philosophy to justify avoiding any confrontation with his own limitations. That's a very different matter.
  3. DdlR is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2010 1:04am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SBG-ape View Post
    There's a big difference though, between a large guy who spars athletically & a large guy who spends his time explaining that he's a better fighter because he doesn't spar & that other people should stop sparring too. People aren't saying: "he's fat, so lets make fun of him for not sparring". I think what people are saying is: "he doesn't spar, so lets make fun of him for being fat".
    Um - I can see "he doesn't spar, so let's make fun of him for not sparring", if people really want to do that; this obsession with his weight reads to me like a combination of moral outrage ("OMFG how can he live with himself!?!?") and schoolyard bullying via Forum posts.
  4. Polar Bear is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2010 5:14am


     Style: WMA - German Longsword

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While, certainly not being a slim chap by any stretch, 22 stone, they don't call me "the bear" for nothing . I can bench 300lbs, run 5 miles and freeplay continuously. I train outside of my comfort zone. This is the key difference. You cannot effectively train without a decent level of fitness. You don't have to be thin but you have to be fit. Hugh from watching his videos is not fit. So his arguments tend to be based on that lack of fitness rather any real reason. To that end we now include kettlebell training as a core component of our training regime but then I am very lucky to have Vadim Kolganov as a member of my group to provide this training for us. This has improved club fitness, strength and freeplay endurance of all our group members.
  5. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2010 8:51am


     Style: Bowie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SBG-ape View Post
    Part of being a serious martial artist is striving to improve yourself.
    To you, maybe.

    Let's be honest here. This whole "better yourself" is an artifact of Eastern philosophy combined with modern marketing in the Martial Arts. Traditionally, in WMA, people's real goal was to be able to dominate or kill the opponent.

    Even today, most people who train MA do so because it's a fun hobby and "Self Improvement" (and even "Self Defense") are distant seconds which more often are only given lip service.

    There is a certain subset of martial artists who are Body Nazis or are otherwise truly doing MA for "Self Improvement" but it's a comparatively small subset. So, no, "Self Improvement" isn't a required goal in order to qualify as "a serious martial artist."

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  6. SBG-ape is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2010 12:28pm


     Style: Jiu-jitsu & HEMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    Let's be honest here. This whole "better yourself" is an artifact of Eastern philosophy combined with modern marketing in the Martial Arts. Traditionally, in WMA, people's real goal was to be able to dominate or kill the opponent.
    I can't agree with that. I don't think anyone takes up an activity saying to themselves: "I want to keep doing this, but I don't want to get any better at it", nor do they say: "I want to win, but not because I've developed skill. Only because those I'm competing against are useless."
  7. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2010 3:14pm


     Style: Bowie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SBG-ape View Post
    I can't agree with that. I don't think anyone takes up an activity saying to themselves: "I want to keep doing this, but I don't want to get any better at it", nor do they say: "I want to win, but not because I've developed skill. Only because those I'm competing against are useless."
    I wouldn't agree with that statement either.

    Good thing it's not what I said. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  8. kwan_dao is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/28/2010 1:30am


     Style: sambo, stuff

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    I wouldn't agree with that statement either.

    Good thing it's not what I said. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
    Well, then it would be helpfull if you could elaborate what you were meaning with that statement.

    You said that "improving yourself" was alien to western martial arts. That the goal of ye olden europeans would have been to dominate or kill the opponent not self improvement.

    Afaik we were still talking about physical improvement. Which would of course include developing the willpower to expose oneself to physical training.

    How are you going raise your ability to dominate or kill your opponent, if not by getting faster, stronger and more enduring than him?

    What kind of training would a Landsknecht have had to undergo, considering that they fought and moved on foot? The battle-lines were in constant movement back then. Between battles they would march for dozens of miles a day. Carrying their armor, weapons and eqipment, plus often a certain amount of provisions. What would Hugh Knight have had to do first and foremost to survive, if he had been a member of a Landsknecht cohort?

    Self improvement may not have been a defined goal of western martial arts on its own. But it was (and is) a well known preliminary to reaching the goals of any martial art I know. Be that success in competition, the ability to self-defend or the power to "kill and dominate". There are no magical shortcuts. You either improve yourself or what you do is pointless.
  9. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/28/2010 11:07am


     Style: Bowie

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwan_dao View Post
    Well, then it would be helpfull if you could elaborate what you were meaning with that statement.

    You said that "improving yourself"
    I could ask the same question.

    Since you used the phrase, what do mean by "striving to improve yourself" and how is your definition different from what is commonly meant by "striving to improve yourself" in standard martial arts jargon starting with Kano and moving on through any modern presentation of the subject. Personally, I submit that "striving to improve yourself" in standard martial arts jargon covers a whole heap more than just "get better at killing people."

    Now, if you're going to use a definition outside of the commonly recognized modern understanding, then please specify what it is at the outset so that we can all be on the same page.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  10. SBG-ape is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/28/2010 12:36pm


     Style: Jiu-jitsu & HEMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually I believe I was the one who started the talk of improving one's self.

    I would say this: As a martial artist I push at my limits to identify them & when I find a deficiency (in breath of knowledge or depth of technical skill or in athletic attributes) I strive to improve myself in that regard. All that is dependant though, on training with sufficient intensity to find my own limits.

    It's easy for people to think that they have one perfect technique that cannot be defeated, because every time they train it compliantly it seems to work. It is likewise easy for people to convince themselves they've mastered a technique when they've never had to perform against someone countering it. It's also easy for people to convince themselves they're fit enough, when no experience has forced them to confront the limits of their strength/endurance. These are all common themes in Chun threads. That fact that the stereotypical chunner is too skinny & Hugh Knight is too fat is secondary to the fact that they perpetuate an idea that fighting doesn't have to be an athletic process.
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