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  1. #61
    JudOWNED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pLackR.brizzL View Post
    He's a chinese boxer....In the 209,thats the best time to going in for da shiddy bang booYah.....:new_blueg
    Poster of the year, imo.

  2. #62
    JudOWNED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PimpDawg View Post
    As a grappling type, I think that gnp is very violent looking, but to a lot of people watching Johnny choke little Timmy in the schoolyard is probably horrific. I think we fear what we don't understand. Punching people freaks me out. Admittedly, if little Timmy's arm snapped in half, it might look pretty nasty.
    True. Someone already said in this thread, I think, that if mma was kickboxing on the feet and submission only once it hit the ground, most people wouldn't think it was anywhere near as violent as it is now. But MMA wasn't created as a sport. It was created as a (relatively) safe way to test real fighting skills. It has evolved from that into a sport. So it retains (to its benefit, imo) a lot of the real fighting aspects it started with, including an anything goes mentality that says if an opponent is on the ground you keep trying to finish him by any means possible.

  3. #63
    TheMightyMcClaw's Avatar
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    I feel like the visceral reactions people have to ground and pound is largely a byproduct of the notion that once someone is on the ground, they're incapable of defending themselves. Those of us who watch substantial amounts of MMA know this not to be true, and that the guy on bottom, especially if he has full guard, has a bucketful of joint locks and chokes at his disposal that are just as menacing as the top guy's strikes.
    I would hypothesize that someone coming from a CMA background would have this misconception even worse, due to the "I threw you, therefore I win" attitude of San Da and Shuai Jiao.

  4. #64
    Hooded Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    I feel like the visceral reactions people have to ground and pound is largely a byproduct of the notion that once someone is on the ground, they're incapable of defending themselves.
    I would submit that if 1 fighter is standing and 1 is on the ground that in a "real" fight the guy on the ground is at a severe disadvantage and will likely lose if there are no rules in place to limit the attackers options or allow the downed person to stand up after X seconds of no action.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    I would hypothesize that someone coming from a CMA background would have this misconception even worse, due to the "I threw you, therefore I win" attitude of San Da and Shuai Jiao.
    Because that attitude of I throw you = I win isn't present in say...Judo tournaments is it... ;-)

    I understand that a guy on the ground CAN still defend himself and win a fight, but this is usually when the other fighter is also on the ground or limited in how they can attack their downed opponent. And while I am not by any means an expert it seems with few exceptions that throws are meant to leave 1 person standing and 1 person not which leads to my above observation.

    I hate to reinforce the street vs sport crap but there are some rules in UFC that while designed for safety and entertainment inadvertently encourage bad habits. How many times has a ref had to warn against hitting the back of the head? That guy who gets warned should be given a strait win because he is in the position to deliver what could be fight ending strikes but isn't allowed to by the rules. I believe this is the core of what JC is trying to get across. If there is a point at which someone likely would win why allow an unsavory aspect of fighting to continue (for the sake of entertainment) rather than stand up and begin a "new" fight.
    Last edited by Hooded Justice; 1/22/2010 12:55pm at .

  5. #65
    nightowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice View Post
    I understand that a guy on the ground CAN still defend himself and win a fight, but this is usually when the other fighter is also on the ground or limited in how they can attack their downed opponent.
    YouTube- Fedor Knockout of Goodridge, Soccer Kick to the head,Old Pride show knockout


    RIP PRIDE

  6. #66
    OZZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Off View Post
    Have you seen a schoolyard fight lately? They're pretty much all sloppy GnP.

    Also punching to the back of the head is illegal in any MMA organization you'd care to look at, so they're learning that from somewhere else.
    Yes, and that was the case 20 years ago too..but now it is reinforced by professionals.

    As far as hitting to the back of the head goes, I know its illegal. I was actually thinking about the fight between Royce Gracie and Matt Hughes, at the end where Hughes was on Gracie's back and throwing hooks to the sides of his head until thre ref called it.
    I was out at a bar watching it with my Sifu that night, and that was when he commented on how it was a poor example of honorable fighting and that kids would try to emulate it.
    " If one wants to have a friend one must also want to wage war for him: and to wage war one must be capable of being an enemy." - Fr. Nietzsche 'On The Friend' Thus Spake Zarathustra

  7. #67
    OZZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    I feel like the visceral reactions people have to ground and pound is largely a byproduct of the notion that once someone is on the ground, they're incapable of defending themselves. Those of us who watch substantial amounts of MMA know this not to be true, and that the guy on bottom, especially if he has full guard, has a bucketful of joint locks and chokes at his disposal that are just as menacing as the top guy's strikes.
    I would hypothesize that someone coming from a CMA background would have this misconception even worse, due to the "I threw you, therefore I win" attitude of San Da and Shuai Jiao.
    Good points.

    You can still generate substantial power to strike when on the ground, especially if you have developed short power.
    " If one wants to have a friend one must also want to wage war for him: and to wage war one must be capable of being an enemy." - Fr. Nietzsche 'On The Friend' Thus Spake Zarathustra

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by OZZ View Post
    As far as hitting to the back of the head goes, I know its illegal. I was actually thinking about the fight between Royce Gracie and Matt Hughes, at the end where Hughes was on Gracie's back and throwing hooks to the sides of his head until thre ref called it.
    I was out at a bar watching it with my Sifu that night, and that was when he commented on how it was a poor example of honorable fighting and that kids would try to emulate it.
    And yet it was pretty obvious to me that once Hughes had the fight under control he was deliberately trying to make sure that he inflicted as little damage as necessary to stop the fight.

    Fookin old people.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by OiScout View Post
    Hell, he's not a young guy either, so he might have that certain mindset. If you ask people of an older generation, they'd probably say the same thing, and that anything aside from punching is dirty.
    Yeah, just like John McCain used to be a boxer but had thought that MMA was just horrible.
    Best Vietnam War music video I've ever seen put together by a vet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDY8raKsdfg

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    Yeah, just like John McCain used to be a boxer but had thought that MMA was just horrible.
    Y'know, I suspect that McCain's initial distaste for gnp may have its roots...elsewhere.

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