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  1. Bad Apple is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/18/2010 1:16pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Way back in the single digit UFC's the term "mixed martial arts" meant style vs style more than any single fighter using more than one MA in a single fight.

    Hell, even Royce Gracie was just listed as a juijitsu fighter and not MMA. You would have to pick one of those "iffy" styles (like Paul Varlens) "pit fighter" or "trap fighter" and call THAT the first mixed MA.
  2. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/18/2010 4:49pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I suppose we could ask him when he felt the term was big enough that he needed to rename his website.
    Well, in general, he's an authority on the subject, and if you posted the question on mma.com you'd probably get plenty of useful replies.
  3. Matt Phillips is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/18/2010 5:31pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Apple View Post
    Way back in the single digit UFC's the term "mixed martial arts" meant style vs style more than any single fighter using more than one MA in a single fight.

    Hell, even Royce Gracie was just listed as a juijitsu fighter and not MMA. You would have to pick one of those "iffy" styles (like Paul Varlens) "pit fighter" or "trap fighter" and call THAT the first mixed MA.
    I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that you heard someone use the term in one of the first 9 UFCs? Which one.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

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    Luta Livre flees the fight,
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  4. JKDChick is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/18/2010 5:48pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Apple View Post
    Way back in the single digit UFC's the term "mixed martial arts" meant style vs style more than any single fighter using more than one MA in a single fight.

    Hell, even Royce Gracie was just listed as a juijitsu fighter and not MMA. You would have to pick one of those "iffy" styles (like Paul Varlens) "pit fighter" or "trap fighter" and call THAT the first mixed MA.
    Apple, I'm not going to cull this post, but it is a bit off topic. The debate is not about "what is MMA" or "what do people mean when they say MMA" but where and when the term was first used.

    So, in those early UFC, does anyone refer to what they are doing as MMA? When did it first enter the UFC language?
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  5. Matt Phillips is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/19/2010 9:19am

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKDChick View Post
    Apple, I'm not going to cull this post, but it is a bit off topic. The debate is not about "what is MMA" or "what do people mean when they say MMA" but where and when the term was first used.

    So, in those early UFC, does anyone refer to what they are doing as MMA? When did it first enter the UFC language?
    Outside of Blum's use of the term in 1995, there are two early references to it from the New York state legislature in 1996


    1)

    2)

    Under the reasonable assumption that the term was not independently reinvented by some NY state rep, I think it is fair to assume that it was introduced to them by someone involved in the sport. Whether or not this involved UFC personnel is an open question, as the New York state legislature's involvement with the sport begins in 1995 with the banning of Battlecade's Extreme Fighting event.

    Edit: I wonder if Sam, or someone with ready access to the statute might check the language and post it here.
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 1/19/2010 9:24am at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  6. Matt Phillips is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/19/2010 9:55am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Off topic, but worth reading:

    Earliest post fight impressions on UFC I
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  7. slideyfoot is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/19/2010 11:05am

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     Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Black Belt issues archived on Google Books provide a wealth of info: I've been trying to list all the ones related to BJJ here. In a similar vein to what War Wheel just posted, there are also letters from shortly after the first event, the infamous 'Shotokan, Taekwondo and Kung Fu Challenge Jujutsu' article (in which Dillman complains his techniques aren't allowed in the UFC), and a letter from Art Davie defending UFC 1.
  8. Matt Phillips is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/19/2010 11:55am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by slideyfoot View Post
    The Black Belt issues archived on Google Books provide a wealth of info: I've been trying to list all the ones related to BJJ here. In a similar vein to what War Wheel just posted, there are also letters from shortly after the first event, the infamous 'Shotokan, Taekwondo and Kung Fu Challenge Jujutsu' article (in which Dillman complains his techniques aren't allowed in the UFC), and a letter from Art Davie defending UFC 1.
    There are lots of good letters from Inside Kung Fu magazine from that period too.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  9. Matt Phillips is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/19/2010 12:21pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's also a crazy letter from some blind guy who claimed to have beaten Pedro Sauer in a challenge match. IIRC it was in between UFC I and II.

    Edit: Here: http://books.google.com/books?id=7c8...ind%22&f=false

    Edit Edit: Lol! there is actually video of this YouTube- Gracie Jiu Jitsu vs. Bodybuilder

    Weird to see something you read about 16 years ago on youtube
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 1/19/2010 12:40pm at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  10. Bad Apple is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2010 12:49pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDChick View Post
    Apple, I'm not going to cull this post, but it is a bit off topic. The debate is not about "what is MMA" or "what do people mean when they say MMA" but where and when the term was first used.

    So, in those early UFC, does anyone refer to what they are doing as MMA? When did it first enter the UFC language?


    Thank you benevolent and merciful wielder of the banhammer. I'm not deliberatly thread jacking this, just trying to point out that when the term "mixed martial arts" was first used it meant style vs style not the common usage of today where it now means "multiple martial arts"

    Early attempts to name the genre that is now MMA ranged from NHB, combat sports, cage fighting and so on. War Wheel hit it with the NY legislature chapter and verse. The term MMA is used to describe two unlike martial artists fighting each other not one guy using several styles at once.

    When did the meaning change ? Not until the Gracies got out of the UFC. Remember, the UFC began as a PPV infomercial to sell GJJ.
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