Defense against a modified armbar

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 1/14/2010 3:33pm

One of my main training partners is a very good and very athletic brown belt who consistently is able to finish armbars started from either top or side on me. This is frustrating because besides him I am very rarely armbared. This is in large part because I do a very good job sitting and stacking out of armbars, so much so that I often bait armbars even against browns to get out from under side (many don't take me up on it anymore).

My training partner, who we'll call "J", has completely shut down my normal defenses by a rather simple change to how he armbars:
Instead of sitting back for the armbar, he goes to his side (the side facing my head). If J is armbaring my left arm, he'll be on my left while sitting/laying on his right side. Inexplicably (well, kinda, I generally get why), this does a far better job keeping me from sitting up even than hooking the leg. This method basically keeps me flat on my back and so then it is just a matter of J breaking my grip.

Has anyone come across this? If so, how do you deal with it?
Answers of "not getting put there" are not welcome.

Thanks.

**M-Tri** · Posted On: 1/14/2010 4:31pm

yeah, I'm assuming you use the mata-leao grip for defense, right?

This is something I've been encountering from a few real tough brown and black belts that last year or so. I'm the same way and often bridge right into a stack escape the armbar and this definitely stops that from being possible, but it doesn't stop your from doing a back roll and then stacking the same way with a kind of "reverse" entry. this is just something I've been using recently so i'm sure there is still a lot of room for improvement, but it's been working well enough so far.

If they're grabbing your pants you'll have to break that grip first (obviously), but this is actually easier to do when they're on the side like that as opposed to being tight to the leg; the hard part is getting them stacked. You have to bring your body over to the other side of theirs and post your far leg out for balance so you aren't taken right back over. this is difficult and may take a few attempts, but it works.

one way to do this is with a straight-up back roll. fake a bridge then do a back roll to your knees and stack before he tosses you back over, another more effective way is to step one leg over at a time. the first step will put you in an awkward reverse mount type position, and here you can actually use that knee to help support your grip and keep your attacked arm protected until you manage to step the other leg over and then spin him into a stack.

the problem is that these are both pretty easy to block with a grip on the pants, so you have to break the grip and do the next step in on motion. It's also easy for him to keep you off balance and put you back down flat if you don't post quickly and properly while keeping your weight in the right place, so it may take several attempts before you get a successful stack if they're very good.

definitely practice this on the white and blue belts first a few times with some positional training. I couldn't find any footage of it being used live, but I'm sure you've seen or used it before at one point.

If anyone else has anything I'm interested in his subject also.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 1/14/2010 4:41pm

Originally Posted by M-Tri

it doesn't stop your from doing a back roll and then stacking the same way with a kind of "reverse" entry. this is just something I've been using recently so i'm sure there is still a lot of room for improvement, but it's been working well enough so far.

AWESOME! Thanks, that's at least a start. He doesn't grab the pant leg because he's facing the wrong way (and to break my grip you usually need two hands or to do a bicep slicer which is difficult from there).

Unfortunately I can't really practice this on anyone because no one except some of the guys close to (or at) black even try to armbar me (well, some blues but they don't worry me or do it the same way). I'm sure he'll go for it tomorrow or Saturday.

**danno** · Posted On: 1/15/2010 12:48am

so even though his weight is toward the top of your body and he isn't grabbing your leg, you can't do something like a last resort escape?

i'd like to see pics or video. i'm really interested in this from the attacking side of things.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 1/15/2010 9:16am

Originally Posted by danno

so even though his weight is toward the top of your body and he isn't grabbing your leg, you can't do something like a last resort escape?

i'd like to see pics or video. i'm really interested in this from the attacking side of things.

Assuming that Triangles and I are talking about the same thing, you're shoulders are inexplicably rather pinned down. I don't know what a last resort escape is by name but it if it is trying to walk around by protecting the direction the elbow is pointing, maybe but I haven't really had a chance to work that.

**DSL** · Posted On: 1/15/2010 10:06am

With the back roll, wouldn't he be then in a belly-down armbar? Or am I not picturing this right? It could be a matter of timing, just trying to picture the sequence.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 1/15/2010 10:16am

Originally Posted by DSL

With the back roll, wouldn't he be then in a belly-down armbar? Or am I not picturing this right? It could be a matter of timing, just trying to picture the sequence.

Potentially but you'd still have your grip and have more options for working out of it.

**theotherserge** · Posted On: 1/15/2010 10:19am

can you separate his legs? If its your left-side, raise his top/left leg straight up and belt-grip him and try to shrimp to his back?

I'd imagine he could still get the armbar/triangle switch but it does seem like his back-corner is open if he's on his side and you could get there if you can protect your arm and control his top leg simultaneously.

**danno** · Posted On: 1/15/2010 5:46pm

Originally Posted by UpaLumpa

Assuming that Triangles and I are talking about the same thing, you're shoulders are inexplicably rather pinned down. I don't know what a last resort escape is by name but it if it is trying to walk around by protecting the direction the elbow is pointing, maybe but I haven't really had a chance to work that.

just found a video of the escape. it's a pretty standard move as far as i'm aware. seems like no one else uses that name for it apart from places i've trained at in aus.

YouTube- armbar escape

i'm going to experiment more with keeping weight towards their head while going for an armbar. if you find any pics or video of this, please share.