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  1. kenikim is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2010 11:17am


     Style: Christopher Hitchens-do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    I think maybe you've confused the words shorter and smaller.
    no i haven't
  2. Muerteds is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2010 12:05pm


     Style: Itinerant Wanderer

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Snarky, much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenikim
    yes please do, because i sure don't see your point with the links.
    are you trying to enlighten us with throws that don't require collar grips? wow, i wonder how i missed them before. these are SOOOO popular as tournament throws. there are SOOOO many tsurigoshi, ogoshi, and obiotoshi specialists, i've lost count. you probably should have mentioned ipoon seoi, but you weren't really thinking, were you?

    this is the same reasoning i heard with the new no direct attach below the belt rule. some people are saying that 'oh, it's just a handful of throws in the judo syllabus. there are many other throws in judo'.
    this is not the point!

    if i am a morote seoi specialist or high collar grip guy, the gi has neutralized me, not the opponent. i don't think anyone has a big problem with losing to a better judoka, but to lose because the gear was a factor??? only the athletes should be the factors.
    You'll pardon my lateness in response, as I've been enjoying my long weekend.

    Yes, I am pointing out the obvious fact that many, many throws in judo do not require you to grip the collar, the lapel, or even much of the sleeve. There's an obi. Use it.

    "B-b-bbut I'm a specialist!!!!"

    Would you like some cheese with your whine? If you're only focusing on certain throws for competition, you're missing the point. So many do. Quit specializing. Learn to use something new in a difficult situation.

    "B-b-bbut I might not win!"

    Ok. I'm sure you'll find a way to cope. And you might learn more depth about your chosen art. Who'da thunk it?

    As to the limiting of throws further, no, I don't like it. But it has nothing to do with the fact that there are plenty of tools to use to get around a hard-to-grip gi.
  3. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/19/2010 12:42pm

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kenikim View Post
    no i haven't
    Well then I've misunderstood what you said, because you seem to be suggesting picking them up like a small child.
  4. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/19/2010 12:49pm

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muerteds View Post
    You'll pardon my lateness in response, as I've been enjoying my long weekend.

    Yes, I am pointing out the obvious fact that many, many throws in judo do not require you to grip the collar, the lapel, or even much of the sleeve. There's an obi. Use it.

    "B-b-bbut I'm a specialist!!!!"

    Would you like some cheese with your whine? If you're only focusing on certain throws for competition, you're missing the point. So many do. Quit specializing. Learn to use something new in a difficult situation.

    "B-b-bbut I might not win!"

    Ok. I'm sure you'll find a way to cope. And you might learn more depth about your chosen art. Who'da thunk it?

    As to the limiting of throws further, no, I don't like it. But it has nothing to do with the fact that there are plenty of tools to use to get around a hard-to-grip gi.
    You've really outdone yourself this time.

    The point is that if person A has a regular gi, and person B has a special ungrabable gi, then person A is at a disadvantage, as the selection of throws available to them is much lower than those available to person B.

    You wouldn't put a guy into a boxing match with his lead hand tied behind his back and tell him he should do fine as he still has straights and uppercuts available? (Actually, going by your post history, you probably would.)
  5. Muerteds is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2010 3:43pm


     Style: Itinerant Wanderer

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For one, I don't think there is such a thing as an ungrabbable gi. For two, as has been said to death here, skill obviates equipment "advantages". Don't know how many of you have noticed, it's harder to move in one of those triple-woven jackets of armor. I don't really see it as much of an advantage. And I can collar choke the heck out of one of those things- the harder edge makes it easier to drive it into the neck.

    Let's get this straight- I think that the IJF's move to homogenize the judogi is dumb in many ways. It ranks right up there with many of their recent decisions on the stinkometer. And IJF gi standardization won't prevent me from wearing a gi that is tight around my back. It'll just make sure my sleeves are a certain length, that the collar isn't too stiff to bend, and that the belt stays tied. If I were a smart fox, I'd wear one a little tight in the shoulders, and a little tight around the back. Wait. Competitors already do that. It makes it hard to grab. And, lo and behold, the IJF standards do nothing to address it.

    However, the bitching that, "Wah! Your gi beat me." :llorar: is overplayed, and does not make me feel much sympathy for you. I have trouble fighting guys who are short, stocky fire plugs because I've got long legs. They have throws available to them that are not available to me. Should we add height categories to equalize that as well? Of course not. I just use something else. That is precisely what I am suggesting. Do something else. Learn the ways of tsuri goshi and obi otoshi and friggin' use them. Just because they are not popular doesn't mean they don't have uses. It just means you'll have to practice more.
  6. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/19/2010 4:59pm

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Muerteds, your mind is like an ungripable gi.
  7. kenikim is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2010 5:25pm


     Style: Christopher Hitchens-do

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    Well then I've misunderstood what you said, because you seem to be suggesting picking them up like a small child.
    well, i said 'hoist'. :)
    i guess what i was trying to say is that you shouldn't find your self contorting your body to fit into the opponent's body. my opinion is that with hip throws, you should lift up your opponent with body contact as you are moving in. the distinction of lifting with or without body contact is important. for tewaza and most ashiwaza, you wouldn't lift up with body contact. the body contact allows you to lean your opponent towards you. does my explaination make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muerteds View Post
    For one, I don't think there is such a thing as an ungrabbable gi. For two, as has been said to death here, skill obviates equipment "advantages". Don't know how many of you have noticed, it's harder to move in one of those triple-woven jackets of armor. I don't really see it as much of an advantage. And I can collar choke the heck out of one of those things- the harder edge makes it easier to drive it into the neck.

    Let's get this straight- I think that the IJF's move to homogenize the judogi is dumb in many ways. It ranks right up there with many of their recent decisions on the stinkometer. And IJF gi standardization won't prevent me from wearing a gi that is tight around my back. It'll just make sure my sleeves are a certain length, that the collar isn't too stiff to bend, and that the belt stays tied. If I were a smart fox, I'd wear one a little tight in the shoulders, and a little tight around the back. Wait. Competitors already do that. It makes it hard to grab. And, lo and behold, the IJF standards do nothing to address it.

    However, the bitching that, "Wah! Your gi beat me." :llorar: is overplayed, and does not make me feel much sympathy for you. I have trouble fighting guys who are short, stocky fire plugs because I've got long legs. They have throws available to them that are not available to me. Should we add height categories to equalize that as well? Of course not. I just use something else. That is precisely what I am suggesting. Do something else. Learn the ways of tsuri goshi and obi otoshi and friggin' use them. Just because they are not popular doesn't mean they don't have uses. It just means you'll have to practice more.
    it has nothing to do with if you get beaten by a gi. a gi doesn't have the muscles and brains to do that. there is definately merit in your response, that a fighter should be able to overcome obstacles. if one method is not working, try something else. but the fact of the matter is, gear is a factor in a match. what is wrong with standadizing it?

    if you were in a match, it wouldn't bother you if your opponent has soaked their gi in fabric softner and has sleeves that end by his elbows? that would not bother me, if i did the same. yes, skill can and SHOULD overcome gear advantage, but especially at the highest level of the sport, the skill level is so evened that a little edge can win you the match. just because at a club level we've witnessed a skilled fighter with a single weave wipe the mat with a less skilled fighter in a double weave does not mean that this is applicable to all cases. we woulnd't be having this conversation if there weren't issues with fighters doing funky things with their gi.

    and specialization is the fact of life in judo. whether it is a good thing or bad thing is probably up for a different debate though. every high level judo player is a specialist but it doesn't mean they only know one waza. they are proficient in many moves, but EXCEL in one or two.

    i tell you what. those short guys you have trouble with, they are thinking the same thing about taller guys, 'damn, they have throws available to them that are not available to me!'

    you keep implying that people of my opinion are whining about this. i am not whining at all. gear hasn't been a factor when i fought. but seeing what i have seen, i can see how it could play a factor. saying the other party is whining or bitching doesn't help to progress an argument, nor does simply throwing links out there with no proper opinion or explaination.

    and don't bring height into this, because that is a faulty analogy.
    height isn't something you can change, barring tragedies and age. but what you wear, you CAN change.
  8. Muerteds is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2010 10:31am


     Style: Itinerant Wanderer

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenikim
    if you were in a match, it wouldn't bother you if your opponent has soaked their gi in fabric softner and has sleeves that end by his elbows?
    Honestly? No. Perhaps I don't have the "winning spirit". Or perhaps I just figure that if I do my part correctly, it won't matter what the cheesemonkeys come up with next. I'd just consider it a case where I have a gi and they do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenikim
    gear hasn't been a factor when i fought. but seeing what i have seen, i can see how it could play a factor.
    If you've never had a problem with it, what have you seen to make you think it's such a big issue that we need a dictated answer? I am not a big one for catering to a lowest common denominator.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenikim
    i tell you what. those short guys you have trouble with, they are thinking the same thing about taller guys, 'damn, they have throws available to them that are not available to me!'
    *Ding!* *Ding!* *Ding!* We has a winnar.

    Perhaps height was a bad analogy in that you cannot change it. But you can standardize it, just like a gi. Only, we don't. Why? Because at some point, you have to acknowledge that there will be differences between competitors, and they will have to sort it out themselves. I just think that unless someone walks out in a spandex onesie, bitching about differences in a gi really doesn't look promote the idea of advancing your game to overcome challenges, but focuses on your chances at winning a contest. That's secondary for me. I also think that if someone walks out in a spandex onesie, they deserve all the special attention they get.
  9. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/20/2010 11:18am

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So your saying that the type of gi doesn't matter to you because you don't care about competition. This thread is about competition rules.

    I've said it before, you don't need to use the comic-sans font, we already know you're a clown.
  10. kenikim is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2010 11:45am


     Style: Christopher Hitchens-do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Muerteds View Post
    Honestly? No. Perhaps I don't have the "winning spirit". Or perhaps I just figure that if I do my part correctly, it won't matter what the cheesemonkeys come up with next. I'd just consider it a case where I have a gi and they do not.
    what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muerteds View Post
    If you've never had a problem with it, what have you seen to make you think it's such a big issue that we need a dictated answer? I am not a big one for catering to a lowest common denominator.
    what? catering to a lowest common denominator?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muerteds View Post
    *Ding!* *Ding!* *Ding!* We has a winnar.

    Perhaps height was a bad analogy in that you cannot change it. But you can standardize it, just like a gi. Only, we don't. Why? Because at some point, you have to acknowledge that there will be differences between competitors, and they will have to sort it out themselves. I just think that unless someone walks out in a spandex onesie, bitching about differences in a gi really doesn't look promote the idea of advancing your game to overcome challenges, but focuses on your chances at winning a contest. That's secondary for me. I also think that if someone walks out in a spandex onesie, they deserve all the special attention they get.
    you say "at some point, you have to acknowledge that there will be differences between the competitors, and they will have to sort it out themselves." so by your reasoning, there is no need to have referees or rule sets.
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