Posted On:1/07/2010 10:11am
Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan
I am trying to find more information on a Ding Hong Kui (Chinese writing pending... I hope...)
Supposedly he was famous throughout China following the Communist revolution, for his Tangquan? peformances. I was also told that he won a gold medal at the first all-China Wushu competition that was allowed to take place after the revolution. I am still waiting on more specific location and date info.
Currently, I am engaged in an ongoing discussion elsewhere regarding Ding Hong Kui's history/lineage, and claims of centuries old Wudang Taijiquan. I have no reason to believe that the person I am attempting to have the discussion with is lying, and have no desire to be disrespectful. I also don't like to take my info from just one source, and prefer to cross reference like nobody's business.
Is anyone familiar with Ding Hong Kui, his background, his martial history, anything at all? If anyone can point me in the right direction, literature, anecdotes, at this point I would be grateful for anything.
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Posted On:1/07/2010 10:28am
Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD
If you can get me the characters for his name I may be able to help. My instructor was in China during that time period and knows many of the famous Masters from that era personally. At the very least he would have probably heard of him.
Thanks Ronin. I really appreaciate it.
I will see if I can get the name and other bits of info. If I find out anything new, I'll post it here.
The original discussion can be found here:
Last edited by Sri Hanuman; 1/07/2010 10:36am at .
Posted On:1/08/2010 10:30am
Here is Almonzo Lamoureux, a student of Ding Hong Kui.
The guy looks legitimate (no ridiculous claims, no magic powers,) has apparently traveled throughout China. The school looks pretty solid.
This is definitely piquing my curiosity.
Posted On:1/08/2010 10:36am
Found another instructor who traces his lineage to Ding Hong Kui, among others. Scroll about halfway down and you'll see his name, photo included. This guy seems more "cosmic hippy" than Lamoreux.
Last edited by Ronin.74; 1/08/2010 10:39am at .
Posted On:1/08/2010 10:42am
Nice find. Thanks.
The Reiki threw me back a bit.
Ding HongKui (1895-1986) studied under many masters including Wang Shaocheng and Jiang Dianchen. He lived and trained on Snake Hill, HeNan Province, where he continued teaching many students until his death in 1986 at the age of 92. He was well known for his mastery of Tang Quan and his fighting abilities.
He was from Henan province, where Chen and Zhaobao villages are located. A possible connection.
Yung Nien county (where Wu Yuhsiang and his brothers operated in the early 1800's as redactors of the Yung Nien Gazetteer) was on Southern Hebei/Northern Henan, also a possible indicator.
Last edited by Sri Hanuman; 1/08/2010 10:53am at .
Posted On:1/08/2010 8:57pm
You're in luck. My instructor knew Ding Hong Kui personally. Ding Hong Kui was his senior by about 20 years and referred to him as An Lao Di (Older Little brother An). My instructor also had the pleasure of being invited to give a Baji demonstration at Ding Hong Kui's school so that Ding Hong Kui's students could, " See what real Wushu should look like".
My instructor also spoke of how many instructors there were in the area at that time that had a tendency to brag a lot about their skills but couldn't back them up, especially when they were drinking. Ding Hong Kui really liked my instructor mainly because he wasn't much of a braggart and was skilled enough to back up any claims he made, hence the reason he was invited by Ding Hong Kui to his school.
Ding Hong Kui did in fact teach at a location known as Snake Hill Pavilion, his specialty was Tang Quan and he was very skilled. My instructor said that Ding Hong Kui had OK Taiji, but you have to take that with a grain of salt. My instructor has known some of the great Taiji masters of the past so when he says that someone is just OK he is comparing them to the some of the best Taiji practioners that ever lived. Which probably means that Ding Hong Kui was actually pretty good.
Ding Hong Kui was a practioner of Wudang Taiji. My instructor would not definitively say that Wudang TaiJi predates Chen but it may. He stated that Wudang Taiji is approx. 400 years old. If you can think of any specific questions you would like me to get answers to let me know and I'll do my best to find out the information.
Posted On:1/08/2010 9:44pm
Again, thanks, Ronin, this is a plesant surprise.
Would you be able to get some of Ding's training history? Where did he train, what did he focus on, where did he learn his Taijiquan, and how much emphasis did he place on it?
Anything you could gather along the lines of that would be great. Anything else would be an added bonus. I am particularly interested in his Taijiquan lineage. Per chance has your instructor heard anything about it?
Again, Ronin, my sincerest thanks for putting your time into this. Since there isn't a lot of info on Ding Hong Kui out there, we may as well put something together. In fact, this page comes up as #1 on google when you search for his name. Your instructor wouldn't happen to know the Chinese writing for it? (Might be a good idea for reference sake.)
Posted On:1/08/2010 9:52pm
Also, for the record, it should be noted that Hubei Province, home of Wudang, and Henan Province, home of Chen and Zhaobao villages, are adjacent.
Here is a map:
Posted On:1/09/2010 10:12am
I speak with him more on the topic next week. My instructor doesn't speak English so it may take me a little bit to get all the specifics. My Chinese is pretty good but he is very highly educated and often unintentionally speaks at a level that is difficult for me to keep up with. I can definitely get you the characters.
I did ask him how Wudang style differs from Chen and I think he said that Chen came about out of a combination of Zhaobao and po chui techniques, but I could be mistaken. He did say that the circular motions in Wudang style are smaller and less emphasized, i.e. more compact.
I'll see what else I can learn.
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