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  1. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 1:03pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've been asked to do the video thing in the past. I busted up laughing. There's no way I'm going to give anybody rank over the internet. Unfortunately I've known people who've done it. Nice enough guys on both sides but doesn't mean I have to respect it.
  2. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 1:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    SAMBO is a "BO" not a "Do". The idea of belt ranks is from the martial arts, not the combat sports. If some wrestling club wants to give out brown belts in Greco-Roman, more power to them, but the outside world is not going to recognize it; The AAU is not going to recognize it; The Olympic commitee is not going to either. Just like no one is going to recognize IMoS of Equador in Sigma Six.

    Omega's system is not any kind of problem. Someone attempting to gain outside recognition of that rank would be a probem. Hell, you can't even get people to recognize Dojo rank in Judo without a governing body signing off on it. And Judo is the source of the belt ranking system.
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 4/19/2010 1:34pm at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  3. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 1:22pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    Omega's system is not any kind of problem. Someone attempting to gain outside recognition of that rank would be a probem. Hell, you can't even get people to recognize Dojo rank in Judo without a governing body signing off on it.
    Thank you this is what I'm referring to right here.
  4. Matt Phillips is offline
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 1:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnacondaMMA View Post
    I think one of Sambo's unique aspects is the lack of a belt ranking system
    What is so unique about it? Not any more "unique" than there being no belts in Muaythai, boxing, wrestling, Savate, SanDa, or Swiming for that matter. SAMBO is not a martial art.

    John Lewis has a BB in Muaythai. That's just how his gym did it when he learned. Whatever. Notice he does not put it on his resume.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 1:43pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah but there is ranking in Muay Thai and Savate.
  6. AnacondaMMA is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 1:54pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Submission Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would disagree that Sambo is not a martial art. Judo, BJJ, even TKD are all considered sports. Judo is an Olympic sport, BJJ has become very sport / competition oriented; but I dare you to tell a high ranking judoka or BJJ practicioner that they are not martial artists. I believe they would render you incapable of making that argument again. (with a friendly display of their martial art, of course.)
  7. sambosteve is offline
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    Stillness is death

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 1:57pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just to clear up some semantics...

    I think the term "ranking" here is being taken to mean color belt ranking. Yes, Muay Thai has ranking, like sambo has the MoS system.

    I also think (correct me if I am wrong WW), that when WW says sambo is not a "martial art", what he means is that it does not have all the stuff most people consider with other (sometimes commercial) martial arts...like Kata, specific required terminology, colored ranks, formal etiquette, etc. I understand his point about combat sport vs. martial art in that sambo bases it's identity on competition. However, I personally do consider sambo to be a "Martial Art" but, it does not include all of those factors I mentioned. Even the FIAS website notes sambo as a "Russian Martial Art".
    One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation

    "disgruntled ex student who couldn't hack training with Dave and his material and opted out (could be called pussied out) of training to go to Sambo" - Mor Sao
  8. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 2:21pm

    supporting member
     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i'm having trouble coming up with a definition of "martial art" that doesn't include sambo.

    edit: and swimming is an ironic example of something without a belt system...
    Last edited by pauli; 4/19/2010 2:32pm at .
  9. AnacondaMMA is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 2:29pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Submission Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I fully agree that Sambo is a martial art. As far as kata; I have been a martial artist for 17 years, and an MMA fighter for the past 4 years. I have never won a fight, tournament, competition, or barroom brawl with kata.

    Back to camcorder grading...the nearest Sambo school to me is about 4 hours away. If sambosteve opened up a school anywhere near me, I'd be camping in front of the doors, begging him to come teach a class at my school. Until then, if that's all I have access to, then so be it. I'll be totally upfront about the fact that I have submitted a video for Mr. Clarke's observation and critique. I do not advertise any rank in his system, or use it as a marketing tool; nor do I claim any "Sambo Rank". I simply take advantage of any available resource so that my students can improve their Sambo. It is what it is. Seems like the biggest uproar is over the claiming of rank via camcorder, and it's use as a marketing tool.
  10. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 4:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think SamboSteve is not misrepresenting my intended meaning. Instead of trying to define the amorphous "Martial Art" let me just define "Combat Sport": Fighting according to prearranged rules. Is there anything else to SAMBO? Is there a curriculum? Do you have to know any Russian terminology? History? Do you have to demonstrate Cyrillic calligraphy or be able to make Fabergé eggs? Do you have to be able to demostrate a prearranged sequence that starts with opening a town car door for a diplomat and ends with jabbing the last of 4 Georgian assassins in the eye with the point of an umbrella?

    Ranking systems like the colored gloves of Savate or MoS for SAMBO are not the same as Kano's belt system, and are not what I was refering to. I doubt there is a soul in the world that would care if Steve gave out "Silver Gloves" in combat SAMBO. Or "Gold Garrottes" in Military SAMBO. Or bottles of "Stoli Silver" in sport SAMBO.
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 4/19/2010 4:20pm at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
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