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  1. RealManOfSteel is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 12:58am


     Style: Parkour, BJJ and Judo.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh OK thanks. An in house ranking system seems a bit stupid if it isn't recognized across something like the ASA.

    Wouldn't introducing your own ranking system on a school-by-school basis make quality control hard?
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 1:21am

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RealManOfSteel View Post
    Oh OK thanks. An in house ranking system seems a bit stupid if it isn't recognized across something like the ASA.

    Wouldn't introducing your own ranking system on a school-by-school basis make quality control hard?

    Yeah....stupid...I think somebody should come to my gym and take my belt away from me, while you're at it, you should take Coffefan's away too.
  3. AnacondaMMA is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 1:36am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Submission Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mr. Clarke's organization is British, so I'm not sure how the ASA would begin a process of rank recognition. I think one of Sambo's unique aspects is the lack of a belt ranking system, and it would probably anger most purists to institue a belt system; but I can't help think that it would do much more good than harm. It would add some familiarity and open some doors. I think minor changes would make it much more palatable to traditional martial artists, and those on the fringe of interest in the sport. I have really become enthralled with Sambo, and I want nothing more than to see it flourish.
  4. RealManOfSteel is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 2:11am


     Style: Parkour, BJJ and Judo.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    LOL Omega, maybe you're the exception that proves the rule.

    You know exactly what I mean; If a situation is allowed to eventuate where individual schools can award ranks based on their own opinion, in will do more harm than good.

    Personally, I think that a schools competition record should be it's selling point.
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 2:23am

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well even the best systems are having quality control these days.
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 3:17am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RealManOfSteel View Post
    You know exactly what I mean; If a situation is allowed to eventuate where individual schools can award ranks based on their own opinion, in will do more harm than good.
    Hmmm that's been happening for centuries. What are you talking about?
  7. RealManOfSteel is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 6:02am


     Style: Parkour, BJJ and Judo.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My point is, it's a shame for it to happen to an art as respected as SAMBO. It's happening to BJJ with that Gracie University DVD thing, and it's just irritating.

    Just because it has been happening for centuries doesn't mean it's the kind of thing to ignore.
  8. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 8:05am

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RealManOfSteel View Post
    My point is, it's a shame for it to happen to an art as respected as SAMBO. It's happening to BJJ with that Gracie University DVD thing, and it's just irritating.

    Just because it has been happening for centuries doesn't mean it's the kind of thing to ignore.
    You know what would be great? Somebody, and I'm not saying who, should design a website to expose **** like this. I could see it now. You could have a small group of guys and gals dictating over a group of Nazi like fuckheads and they could become the scourge of all the other ***** lying fucktards out there that insist their way is right when most of the educated folk know they're full of ****. They could call ****-fu.net and they would really stick it to them.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 10:05am

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RealManOfSteel View Post
    My point is, it's a shame for it to happen to an art as respected as SAMBO. It's happening to BJJ with that Gracie University DVD thing, and it's just irritating.
    This has nothing to do with your statements of:
    You know exactly what I mean; If a situation is allowed to eventuate where individual schools can award ranks based on their own opinion, in will do more harm than good.
    An in house ranking system seems a bit stupid if it isn't recognized across something like the ASA.
    This tells me you have no clue what you are talking about.


    One does not necessarily produce the other. Omega is a great instructor but, he is not the exception to the rule. Tim Cartmell, Mike Patterson, Omega, Ming Loyalist, DerAuslander, Plasma and on and on and on all do their own in house ranking. Guess what it is based off of? Their opinions.

    As we have seen, from Judo to Billy Bob's Kung fu, orginizational approved ranking prevents nothing at all.
    Go take a look at the Kukkikwon and the state of TKD.
    Go look at where Judo seems to be headed.
    Go Look at where BJJ is headed.

    Again, tell me how the ASA or another Organization stops in house ranking and keeps it legitimate.


    Just because it has been happening for centuries doesn't mean it's the kind of thing to ignore.
    See Omega's post, read what I wrote above, and see where your argument derailed.
  10. sambosteve is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/19/2010 11:27am

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     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, there are two different issues here:

    1) In house ranking
    2) Camcorder distance ranking.

    The ASA does not recognize either...for different reasons.

    There have been various attampts to formalize sambo ranking over the years, none have stuck and all have been unsuccessful on a large scale. All are looked at as silly by the majority of the established sambo community. As a result, there are lots of schools and organizations offering sambo ranks of lesser or greater quality. So, there is no way the ASA could possibly monitor, let alone enforce, quality control. And, we don't have a desire to so since sambo generally has no ranks outside the master of sport rating system (unfortnately largely not available to US athletes). That is the only internationally recognized raking in sambo and the only one the ASA recognizes. So, we do not approve or disapprove of any established ranking system. That is the official ASA stance.

    My personal feelings are more detailed...

    Now, the main difference between Omega's in house system, and Clarke's, for example is that all of Omega's guys train directly with Omega at his club. So, while most of the sambo community will still not recognize Omega's ranks, and even question them, at least the guys are training with him day in and day out.

    Clarke's scheme and others like it (there are several), is clearly about making money. The claim will be made by these folks that the goal is to spread the art. However, IMO, people seriously interested in the growth and preservation of sambo would never sell ranks to people who have not trained directly with the granting coach for appropriate time periods or who may have never trained sambo at all. This may spread the "name" sambo, but it does not promote quality sambo.

    This type of system hurts sambo IMO. Believe me, I know. I get e-mails weekly about this guy or that guy who is "ranked" in sambo. It causes confusion and misrepresents what sambo is about. Over time such distance learning systems will water down sambo and weaken it. When people can't train directly with an instructor, be monitored regularly in person by the coach, etc, the rank means nothing to me. My answer to inquiries about someone's rank is always the same..."Let's see the guy on the mat" and "what is his practical experience?"

    I would rather grow slowly with care than make a few bucks by selling the name of my art for a few dollars. This is why the ASA does not grant ranks, but DOES publically log all our member clubs' training hours. We want to show which of our member clubs are actively training and which are not. That speaks for itself more than any rank.

    Like wrestling and boxing, Sambo has historically been about one thing...mat time, competition time, and training time. To place a color belt system on sambo is a construct from Asian martial arts that westerners feel comfortable with or use to boost their own credibility, but has no relevance to sambo. Most people here would think it was silly if people granted a black belt in wrestling or boxing...right? It is the same for sambo. It is mixing apples and oranges. There are plently of ways to recognize and motivate students without establishing ranking of this type...if they are training with you directly. I have a thriving school, no ranks, and nobody cares. I actually think that the fact that there are no ranks brings in a different element of student who has different motivations...motivations more directly related with training and success. We are all motivated by skill and self improvement, nothing else. Within the club, we don't need a belt system to recognize who works harder, knows more, is advanced, is a beginner, etc. That stuff is evident without a belt. Outside the school, people know our guys not because of ranks, but because of our competative record, skill, teaching ability, etc...not any ranking that we may give out.

    In the end, it is a free world, people can create, use, buy, and sell ranlks. But, they will only be worth so much in the sambo community at large.
    One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation

    "disgruntled ex student who couldn't hack training with Dave and his material and opted out (could be called pussied out) of training to go to Sambo" - Mor Sao
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