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  1. Vorpal is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    1/09/2010 10:44am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Which MA a police agency uses tends to have more to do with liability and public perception than effectiveness. Police administrators cream in their pants over the image of their officers using arm bendy compliance moves. The fact that a few leg kicks and a good judo throw would be much more effective doesn't factor into the equation.
  2. Whathappened is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/09/2010 10:59am


     Style: Wing Chun Kuen

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorpal View Post
    Which MA a police agency uses tends to have more to do with liability and public perception than effectiveness. Police administrators cream in their pants over the image of their officers using arm bendy compliance moves.
    Flashy presentation > practical "boring" presentation
    Sad fact of life.

    Effectiveness:efficiency ratios go out the window once administrators of any business see them flashy moves.
  3. BSONE is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/09/2010 5:15pm


     Style: ASU Aikido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As an aikido teacher, I would say that self defense is mostly a byproduct of aikido, not really the goal, if you know what I mean. There are many arts to study if your primary goal is self defense, and very few aikido dojo that practice with the primary goal being defense. Therefore I would think it difficult to find any quality instuction in that in aikido. Not saying it couldnt be done, just unlikley.
  4. Toughsensei is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2010 1:03am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Goju-Ryu/Bjj (White Belt)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think that learning Aikido is similar to learning some of the sword arts. The practitioner is learning art for the sake of ART, and to them, it doesn't really matter if what they are learning is practical for self-defense or not. Like BSONE stated; it is sometimes a by-product, rather than the actual goal. For me, Karate is the opposite (initially) students come to the dojo to learn self-defense, and end up (hopefully, and eventually) learning an art!
  5. Red Elvis is offline
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    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2010 2:40am

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmmm... It appears that while I have been on an extended Bullshido sabbatical Mr. Tripp has come aboard. Even more interesting is that in this case I agree 95% with his post re: 'real self defense' even though back in the day (circa 1994-1996) we used to have heated & spirited debates on the old AOL martial art message boards that pre-dated this site. Ahhh, the good 'ol days before Bullshido!

    Anyway, to add just a couple additional items that he probably didn't feel like typing would be to also;

    * Learn as best you can to understand the criminal mind
    * Understand & utilize situational awareness
    * Change of lifestyle needed to really practice effective SD
    * Learn & understand your local laws pertaining to SD
    * Understanding terrain & E&E
    * Learn and practice 'verbal judo' & de-escalation as best as possible
    * Stay fit and healthy (in case you gots' to run!)
    * Get to know yourself and how far you are willing to go given certain situations

    etc. and so forth...

    Some of that is what you may find in a 'mugging type course' but I have never seen all the goods on real SD in any one place be it from LEO, military, martial art, sport, seminar, book, DVD, etc.

    The key is looking to all those and more and using them in concert. Real SD is very complicated and has many facets that most people and MA's simply overlook.
    :ninjafigh
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
  6. Adam_F is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2010 4:14am


     Style: bitchin' and whinin'

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've just finished reading "Angry White Pyjamas" by Robert Twigger, a biography about an English teacher who does the 1 year riot police Aikido course in Japan in the 90's.

    The impression I got from it was that the Aikido traning for the cops was more about instiling (fairly right wing) traditional values than about practical self defence, he certainly mentions several times that the police have kevlar armour and machine guns to back up their Aikido prowess!
  7. Moenstah is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2010 7:00am


     Style: 空手 / &#2147

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What I glanced from that book was that due to the harshness and gruelling experiences during that year, the author developed a toughness of mind (a part of the mentioned right wing 'yamato damashii'?) that could help him during a SD situation
  8. Mtripp is offline
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    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2010 7:23am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Elvis View Post
    Hmmm... It appears that while I have been on an extended Bullshido sabbatical Mr. Tripp has come aboard. Even more interesting is that in this case I agree 95% with his post re: 'real self defense' even though back in the day (circa 1994-1996) we used to have heated & spirited debates on the old AOL martial art message boards that pre-dated this site. Ahhh, the good 'ol days before Bullshido!
    Hmmm... must have been almost 10-15 years ago. But I am sure your "interest" can return to disagreeing with me 95% of the time if you work at it.

    Had debates with lots of people then, still do. Some got it, some didn't; but I really spend no thought process at all on those I disagree with, especially 15 year old debates....
  9. Rock Ape is offline
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2010 12:40pm

    staff
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Read everything I've ever stated about aikido and you'll have a fair perspective on what it is, and more importantly, what it isn't
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  10. Yoj is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2010 12:46pm


     Style: Aikijujutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aikido is very effective as a form of self defence, it takes a lot of mat time to master, and while you are on the mat, you aren't on the deadly streets.

    Simples.
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