Krav Maga is a legit fighting philosophy of the Israelis most of the fighting skills are borrowed from other disciplines except for the weapons disarming and use in fighting. The whole idea is for you to survive any situation with an intense response to an attacker or multiple attackers, in Israel that response may end in death.
Originally Posted by darkmatter265
The Original KM in Israel is vetted through real battles fighting the PLO and other factions. Unlike some arts this is trained live and tested in combat. As you may guess it is always evolving based the reality of killing or being killed in combat. In laymans terms if the stuff doesn't work they discard it. We must remember the need for it was based off the H.A.G.A.N.A. movement around WW2 when the Jews were trying to survive the Nazi annihilation of their people in Europe.
It is based off of a Jew Imi Lichtenfeld who took all the stuff Jews used in real life ad developed the national fighting system for the new Israeli military once Jews were given statehood in 1948. Keep in mind that what the Israeli military does is always evolving to meet real world threats. The civilian version in the U.S. is watered down as many friends can attest from training with their military, youget beat up in real fight scenarios in their training. In the U.S. it is hard to get a school insured that does this.
In the U.S. it is watered down to the point of the local McDojo on the corner who is losing students can take a three week online training course and be a legit KM school. SO in the U.S it is hit and miss some schools are worried about the techniques to the point of absurdity while others understand the spirit of KM and that is extreme violence in any confrontation. The base of the art is an individual or small group outnumbered and fighting for their life.
Again if the spirit of the Arts intent is there Israeli or not then it is worth training. And if you never get into a fight in your life or get attacked it is awesome fitness and a great confidence booster.
I feel about Krav as a bit of enigma. Never had any personal experience with it, so I can't say anything from it.
I do feel, that Israelis really don't have time to waste on self-defense misconceptions on the other side, I attended one sd seminar at our judo place and all I can say is get a lot of solid ma sport training in. I would never train that alone, because it wasn't 'alive'. Train solid sport as much as you can. This self defense courses are just for addition, so you become a bit more aware, what you can expect and do.
There, I said nothing new you haven't heard before...
CapnMunchh, I was doing some reading on Krav Maga, and apparently was a policeman whose slide line job (moonlighting) was running a gym. He reportedly taught boxing and jiu-jitsu. Not having met the man, I can only go with what is reported.
When looking at what Krav Maga looks like in its elements, it makes sense: a cop with real world experience, in 1910 to 1930 year period in eastern Europe where boxing and wrestling were part of the standard school curriculum, and when jiu-jitsu was taught to police,... Then comes the early-Israeli period when there was a standup of an army, in which I was reading that initial requirements for early Israeli personal combat training was getting the basics in ten lessons.
I have physically seen the actual Syrian army hand-to-hand combat manual for the 1950s-1965 period, prior to the Soviet influence, and it, too, looks like early Krav Maga, with a mix of boxing, wrestling, and jiu-jitsu. It comes from a period of common influencing factors.
Of course, in initial troop training, getting the basics is what people get in any army and then every troop unit has a training cycle where the basics keep getting practiced. Marching in formation is the same way. Troops get it in basic training, but they keep practicing it periodically once integrated into the service. The principle is the same. Armies today spend more time on other things -- tank maintenance for example, but touch the troop basics only as necessary for organizational life because of time. The level of complexity in modern militaries has forced this change.
My thought is that the level of superior performance we would hold as standard, if we are looking for a martial art in which to train, is found only in a few units which drill in combatives routinely as part of the unit mission, and that the common man continues to only get the basics in any modern military. And, the few units that train regularly in combatives have specific mission needs, and their personnel generally go through a selection course to be there, so the human element of capacity is also a factor.
So, if I train in Krav Maga, it would be vain of me to expect to be at the same level as a body guard employed by the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (or its equivalent title).
Also, in every condition, time changes how things are taught, and in the end all things suffer entropy. A century ago Jiu Jitsu was the new thing in western countries that challenged the former primacy of boxing and wrestling. 50 years ago, it was the karate craze. Then came kung fu. Now it is Krav Maga, and it too will pass, surrendering to another new martial art. But, at some basic level there is a continuing sameness because the human body and the human being are not changing.
As an Israeli i just have to correct this impression a lot of people get cause of the media and what not. Israel is in fact quite safe (from a MA perspective). There are hardly any fights in clubs/streets etc. we are pretty soft especially compared to Russians Brits, Americans, Australians etc. The random fight that erupts in a club is usually this pathetic push/kick slap - fest.
Originally Posted by Stickybomb
There aren't a lot of people practicing MA like you see in Europe etc.
"Hard" people here (from a violent perspective) use weapons (clubs/knifes/chair/bottle/gun).
One thing though, about israely krav maga here, it is basically mma with weapon and stand up focus. The striking now days is MT based, the grappling is jujitsu and judo based. The best KM instructors are always either boxers/MT/MMA practitioners.
The more serious KM places are coupled to MT or Boxing gyms.. and it is alive (heavy padding and full force oriented).
So it's basically like Dog brothers with a different name? That would be a very good reason to attend.
I wasn't being stereotypical about your streets (because I've never been to Israel and therefore don't know sh+t), I just thought krav is something that comes along with or was connected with the military and therefore there has to be something to it.
Last edited by Stickybomb; 10/05/2014 1:58pm at .
It was and is practiced extensively in some special units, most soldiers like me got a couple of pathetic lessons on how to strike with your m16.. and i was in infantry..
The Krav Maga special forces practice is basically this aggressive heavily padded fights.
They will wear full head gear (with this grill mash protecting the head) and will fight kyokoshin rules (no head strikes although they wear the head gear so to avoid bad injuries). The weapon defense are also drilled, also the use of your hand gun etc in close hand to hand situations.
The point is, it is (km in the army) adapted to certain situations and to army personal. The more common KM you will see, is a form of MMA, with added classic weapon or multiple attacker sparring scenarios. The best places look like the Dog brothers, most are not as good.
And again, the best instructors don't just learn KM, they either come from or directly practicing other arts with their KM. The most popular are MT and BJJ.
Here u can see an example of a military KM practice. The point is not to create a MAtist or even a hand to hand competent fighter (no time, too many injuries etc.).
The point is to take a fit young kid, that had a cushioned life and train him to unleash aggression, to deal with aggression and adrenaline.
Some of the places teaching KM here including the one i went to as a kid are a good choice for a SD method. It was plenty alive, plenty of sparring etc. But some are exploiting the hype and are ****.
I have zero idea how it is (km) abroad.
Last edited by erezb; 10/07/2014 6:14am at .
Since this is in my back yard, I signed up for a one day, in-service on November 10. These courses tend to be pared-down, bare-bones, and nothing but the basics. I haven't done much fun training for work yet this year, so I figured what the hell and as a bonus, it is only a couple of blocks from The Italian Village
mtu15.com/nov 2014 KRAV MAGA COMBATIVES.pdf
I won't delude myself into thinking that I am now training the d3adly str33t lethal Krav, but I may have a little fun.
Hopefully with a real cop as an instructor, it won't be too outlandish.
Originally Posted by slamdunc
However, this quote " make Krav Maga the
standard for Law Enforcement defensive tactics." makes me wonder.
Falling for Judo since 1980
"You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS
"There is a reason that law enforcement and military all over the world learn Krav Maga. They dont learn karate, bjj, or aikido. That can not be ignored."
Oh ****, my dojo is an illusion! Or maybe the LEOs who train there (and are the instructors, and own it) are an illusion, as is their BJJ cross-training! And the baton training they sometimes do with whole groups of local law enforcement, with their property of such-and-such batons and striking pads.
Everything I thought I knew was a lie! It can not be ignoooored!
Yeah you would think that. Sometimes it can make it worse.
Originally Posted by BKR
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