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  1. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2013 11:49am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kovacs View Post
    Totally! It's why I can never buy into RBSD for actual self defence over combat sports. Theory and scenarios and simulated groin stabs mean nothing if you can't take the adrenaline spike and pain of being actually punched or grappled with intent to damage you.
    From what I have seen, some RBSD programs do make the attempt provide training on how to deal with stress and the attendant "adrenaline dump". How effective they are versus the day to day stress of full contact training and then competition, I don't know.

    The need to be able to perform under stress is understood in the military and law enforcement training, both of which I would call "reality based".
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  2. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2013 11:57am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magpie McGee View Post
    I think he's getting those conclusions from their shitty promo, and I think he's pretty much spot on.


    Oh, I missed that. Yeah, that's some hot garbage.....AKA standard issue Krav. They're gettin' them nutsacks aren't they? KAPOW!!!
  3. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2013 12:02pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by erezb View Post
    Have you boxed? because this is bullshit. You want to tell me there are 3 guards? thats it? 4 punches??? no no. I am not going to make an effort telling you how many jabs you have in boxing, but with this logic than you count the technique names you know of, and you can quantify by how much karate is more complicated than judo.
    I'm curious as to how you quantify this ? Care to elaborate? It's OT but what the hell?

    BTW, this isn't in the vein of "karate vs Judo", as I've done both (a little karate and a lot of Judo).
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  4. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2013 12:10pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    snip a lot of stuff...

    Quote Originally Posted by newtoMA10 View Post
    @BKR My point is that Judo has a variety of throws,but you only see a handful of those throws frequently in competition,because it is difficult to use a lot of Judo throws on trained opponents, versus untrained opponents who over committ and thus unevenly distribute their weight when they strike,leave themselves open for a lot of techniques that would be hard to do against someone who is trained.
    It might be easier to use a "judo throw" against an untrained person, but not because they overcommit their weight. On the other hand, most judoka do not train to counter striking, so it might not be. It takes specific training to be able to avoid/slip/block/parry blows and apply "judo throws".

    If you want to talk about general grappling, then a trained judoka would likely have an advantage over the average untrained person. Even then, it depends on skill level and experience.

    You may only see a "handful" of throws in competition, but you can bet that those judoka (at higher levels anyway) can do a lot of other throws well.

    My point is you apparently know **** all about Judo. You are "newtoMA", yet you come here and spout stuff.

    Are you quoting your Krav instructor ?
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. Bayonet is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2013 12:18pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Magpie McGee View Post
    I think he's getting those conclusions from their shitty promo, and I think he's pretty much spot on.

    Yeah, I thought I posted the link to the video itself instead of to the general webpage. I was critiquing the video.


    Y'know, I try to keep an open mind about MA stuff, so every now and again I try to go back and look at Krav with fresh eyes. I check out the videos, websites, articles, of the KM school nearest to me, just to give them a fighting chance to convert me.


    Still ****, though. Still ego-driven, sales-oriented, Walter-Mitty-Fantasist-Convention ****.
  6. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2013 12:18pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    [QUOTE=erezb;2805002]http://www.boxingforum.com/training-...re-boxing.html
    I agree that you can limit it to 6 families of punches. But not 4. I do not agree about the 3 blocks, as i mentioned a shoulder roll is also a block you neglected. So is a one hand block etc.
    Also, because boxing isn't a traditional dogmatic MA, what ever works is a block, so you can add karate blocks etc. (if it woks for you).
    Kickboxing is not like boxing, because of the use of legs, the defensive offensive body position changes and decreases (less head movement, less bobbing and weaving etc. ). The fact is that we are limited with our responses, if you add more options, as kicks, it will come out of your boxing.
    I agree boxing is an effective MA, i also agree that in a short period of time you can teach someone to "have a clue". I also think that kickboxing, or judo can be just as easy to learn, and will provide similar results.[/QUOTE]

    Judo will not provide similar results to boxing, as judo is focused on grappling, not striking. Can you say the opposite, that boxing will produce similar results to Judo? What kind of results are you writing about?

    I love Judo, been doing it for 32 years, but if someone asked me I'd pick boxing over Judo for pure self defense/fighting, given equally competent instruction and opportunity.

    Judo, easy to learn? Hmmmm, well, that's debatable. Easy to learn how? To become effective at Judo is not so easy. Those that have boxed and done judo can give a comparison.

    Both would be best, but I'd start with boxing (for adults, anyway) for someone who is really going to need to fight.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. CapnMunchh is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2013 1:21pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    From what I have seen, some RBSD programs do make the attempt provide training on how to deal with stress and the attendant "adrenaline dump". How effective they are versus the day to day stress of full contact training and then competition, I don't know.

    The need to be able to perform under stress is understood in the military and law enforcement training, both of which I would call "reality based".
    Based on my admittedly limited personal experience with RBSD, I'd say that while these programs do make an effort to teach how to deal with stress and the adrenaline dump, their method of creating a stressful scenario is based on forcing you to deal with overwhelming force while in a condition of physical exhaustion. There is value to this, but still, under these training scenarios there is still no expectation of more than minimal physical injury. This is different from the stress that results from facing an opponent that you know is out to hurt you. Probably the best thing that's ever happened to RBSD programs is the addition of grappling instruction, which usually does provide some amount of live training.
  8. CapnMunchh is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2013 1:32pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I love Judo, been doing it for 32 years, but if someone asked me I'd pick boxing over Judo for pure self defense/fighting, given equally competent instruction and opportunity. . . . Both would be best, but I'd start with boxing (for adults, anyway) for someone who is really going to need to fight.
    That's interesting to hear. I've been training in striking arts for over 30 years also, and if I had to start all over again I'd take up Judo, because I'd consider that to be the most generally effective MA. I guess its just a matter of perspective.
  9. CapnMunchh is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2013 1:39pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Oh, I missed that. Yeah, that's some hot garbage.....AKA standard issue Krav. They're gettin' them nutsacks aren't they? KAPOW!!!
    I'd like to see a MA system that trains gun defenses with simunitions, or at least with a water pistol, similar to the way that some people train knife defense with chalk or Sharpies. It bothers me that these people are treating a gun disarm without adding in any simulation of weapon discharge. I bvet they'd be surprised to see how many times they're getting shot.
  10. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2013 2:44pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    Based on my admittedly limited personal experience with RBSD, I'd say that while these programs do make an effort to teach how to deal with stress and the adrenaline dump, their method of creating a stressful scenario is based on forcing you to deal with overwhelming force while in a condition of physical exhaustion. There is value to this, but still, under these training scenarios there is still no expectation of more than minimal physical injury. This is different from the stress that results from facing an opponent that you know is out to hurt you. Probably the best thing that's ever happened to RBSD programs is the addition of grappling instruction, which usually does provide some amount of live training.
    Training through/past exhaustion is more of a specialized situation to me. It does deal with adrenaline, but, the adrenaline hits you differently when you are exhausted to the point of collapse. In a non-exhausted scenario, the adrenaline is a lot more overwhelming. When exhausted, the adrenaline actually usually feels pretty damned good, especially if you have trained to deal with it when not exhausted.

    Most people have never even been yelled at much, or been physically threatened by another person (or animal). A few years ago, I watched some video on what you could probably call RBSD. The trainers made the point that being able to deal with the adrenaline was more important than the physical techniques. The first part of their training was to basically verbally abuse (severely!) the students and threaten them with physical harm. That sort of thing went on in conjunction with the physical side of the training.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
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