Krav maga even useful?

**Red Elvis** · Posted On: 1/09/2010 2:40pm

I guess the first question that needs to be addressed is what exactly are you looking for in a martial art and in KM specifically? Are you looking at a style to learn how to fight in one range, various ranges, armed or unarmed or are you looking at purely self defense application? Also who in your minds eye are you going to be fighting and for what reason?

You mention Krav in the context of “combat situations”. Please define “combat situations” and how YOU will be in a “combat situation”. In my definition of “combat situations” martial arts is really not more than 5% of the equation (if that) and if you find yourself using hand to hand combat you are in a BAD spot and probably no more than 2-3 seconds from getting your **** killed.

If your answer is self defense then how do you define self defense? Most people on this site equate self defense to mutual fighting where I spill some dudes beer and he gets in my face yadda yadda yadda. In other words a monkey dance (aka, a bar fight, a “what the **** you looking at” fight, a schoolyard fight, an “I’m defending my girlfriends honor” fight, a “you stole my parking spot” fight, etc.)

In this version of self defense maybe KM is good if you manage to find a place that’s not full of ****. From what I’ve personally seen of KM (in the US) they are bastardizing a JKD concept of taking things that work from various styles and attempting to put them together in one cohesive package. Not really easy to do in a workable manner IMHO but take that for what you will. (I can’t honestly say good or bad what people in Israel actually learn in Krav but I hear it’s a lot different then here).

To avoid the hodgepodge you could train in multiple styles as I have done over the years but that comes down to time and money. (Or I should say lots of time and lots of money.) A good combo that will be suggested frequently to you is MT, BJJ and Wrestling. This will help you in a monkey dance type of fight as described above. To save money nowadays you could train in MMA but be sure it’s not the McDojo type of MMA (see above about bastardizing arts…). If you want to add weapons then you add training with the FMA’s and firearms instructors and so forth. Do you see a trend here though? Time and money. In other words, anyone that tells you that you can be an uber badass in our system in x number of weeks is, well…

Now, if your definition of self defense is the same as mine, then what you are looking for is something else entirely and just like my definition of “combat situation” the hand to hand (aka martial arts) aspect is about 5-10% of the equation.

So, what exactly are you looking for again?

**Eudemic** · Posted On: 1/09/2010 3:23pm

Originally Posted by darkmatter265

I have found that when approached some people say its the best in combat situations and other say its all hype.
I am deciding whether or not to train in it, but i would like to hear some opinions on it.

Krav Maga can be good. In the US it mostly isn't.

KM is immensely useful in a specific portion of a street attack, but once you find yourself squared up you'll want something better for trading blows to fall back on. The reason you don't see Krav in the cage is that its primary skill-set isn't really applicable there, and there is much better striking to be had elsewhere.

(Just so you know where I'm coming from, I'll have been practicing Krav for almost five years as of June.)

**El Lobo blanco** · Posted On: 1/31/2010 7:13pm

I thought i would post a few thoughts here-As some have stated some KM schools are ok some are not-I have attended KM schools in the USA and also in Europe-specifically Poland,Greece and Portugal-the caliber of the chief instructors over there is excellent-some of which have actual PSD or combat experience in a war zone-One was a former kick boxing champion of europe-the students i met were police, security,prison guards, Greek navy seal to name a few-so----look at the schol in your area-take some classes- if they are just spotting off that their style is the best of any KM around-i say forget them-look for a honest instructor who really teaches...and stays away from the politics.
Also look to see what tactics are being taught-simple brutal tactics are better than high flying double round house to the head while receiting 100 ways to beat the opponent......lol-lastly -ask yourself why do u want to get out of KM class- self defense? or just to say u took KM ???
stay safe el lobo blanco (whitewolf)-speed of light

**willaume** · Posted On: 2/14/2010 5:02am

hello
KV from I have seen is very variable in quality.
Like all martial arts that have won your martial art got talent competition and so rise to stardom, it has been caught in the Mac dojo re-cyncling spin cycle

For the action part of “civilian” self defence, it needs to be tailored, as it blurs the line between legitimate SD as a legal defence and assault/ABH. Otherwise, if you find a descent club, it is fit for purpose. But really most of the martial arts/combat sports are equally fit for purpose and need just as much tailoring.

The most vital skill, you need in the eventuality of use of force in SD is how you set up the gag. And for that you need a very good understanding of the law in your part of the world and train accordingly.

I do agree with Red Elvis, the action part of SD is a small % of what SD/personal defense is. as I do believe that a sporting/competitive/sparing even 1v1 gives you the physical and body conditioning you need in SD.

If it stands to reason that in SD your opponent (s) is/are likely to manipulate the environment to avoid the range when 1v1 is likely to happen or removing yourself is the right course of action. Surely it does equally stand to reason that a body that can suck up any left over of the initial attack or is able to function after 500 m dash is a clearly an asset.

Phil

**El Lobo blanco** · Posted On: 2/14/2010 6:19pm

Thank you phil-i agree-the 24th i am giving a seminar to the largest atheletic club in my city-i will be reminding all that self defense is something to use but not go overboard-just insure they go home safe-my lessons include KM/boxing tactics/choy ley fut combat tactics and other sources-stay safe whitewolf

**kenburke** · Posted On: 2/15/2010 10:03am

Originally Posted by darkmatter265

I have found that when approached some people say its the best in combat situations and other say its all hype.
I am deciding whether or not to train in it, but i would like to hear some opinions on it.

From what I have seen demonstrated and heard of, it is very, very effective.

Just don't think you'll become an overnight killer without having to sweat or get hit.

**El Lobo blanco** · Posted On: 2/15/2010 6:56pm

I agree the KM tactics are very good-but----its the instructor who is teaching it that makes the difference-whitewolf

**Gidi** · Posted On: 2/16/2010 3:12am

Originally Posted by Red Elvis

I can’t honestly say good or bad what people in Israel actually learn in Krav but I hear it’s a lot different then here.

Being a card carrying Israeli in this forum, I usually try and answer stuff regarding KM in Israel.

*Disclaimer - I have never trained civilian KM, but I have many friends who have. I also served in the school for anti-terrorism in the IDF, so I know some stuff about the military version as well.

that being said, I'll say the 1st thing you should know about KM in Israel, its mostly about aggression, and I have never ever heard of a school that doesn't spar regularly (for that matter, the only places I've heard who don't spar at all are aikido and tai-chi places, Israelis expect to spar when they do MA - at least as far as I know).

also, many of the better KM instructors cross-train and recommend cross-training.
Also the guys I know who had the most success in the H2H part of their army training had previous exp. in Judo, MT, Karate and so on.

From this I suggest the same as every one else, do Judo, BJJ, MT the usual, but if you find a solid KM place that competes or at least spars properly, with aliveness, its probably not that bad.