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  1. Devil is offline
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2013 7:15pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    No - specifically, which part of this are you struggling with?
    None of the above. I'm not struggling. You're struggling to distinguish quality martial arts training from poor martial arts training.

    You're not seeing any continuum of training in these videos. You're seeing varying degrees of shitty training and the central problem with Krav Maga remains - they spend some time sparring but the rest of their training consists of dead uke drills that have very limited value for self defense.

    Furthermore, they're not very good with the alive training they do practice because quality fighting fundamentals are a much lower priority in Krav than teaching students t3h d34dly. Hence the endless stream of students that think they're practicing "real self defense" but can't even throw a proper punch.
  2. slamdunc is online now
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    Extraordinarily Ordinary

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2013 7:56pm

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     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteShoeMan View Post
    Above level 1 one can spar and is encouraged to do so. The sparring can get pretty heavy for the guys who have been doing it a while. I've had my bell rung on many occasions and had many bruises and black eyes. The sparring looks MMA-ish... by that I mean same techniques but fewer rules. A guy who used to do MMA sparred with us recently and was surprised by a headbutt.
    Would it be possible for you to post or link us to a video of your academy students sparring. It may (or may not) be what we are asking to see.

  3. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/15/2013 11:32pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    None of the above. I'm not struggling. You're struggling to distinguish quality martial arts training from poor martial arts training.

    You're not seeing any continuum of training in these videos. You're seeing varying degrees of shitty training and the central problem with Krav Maga remains - they spend some time sparring but the rest of their training consists of dead uke drills that have very limited value for self defense.

    Furthermore, they're not very good with the alive training they do practice because quality fighting fundamentals are a much lower priority in Krav than teaching students t3h d34dly. Hence the endless stream of students that think they're practicing "real self defense" but can't even throw a proper punch.
    The videos I posted demonstrate knee strikes as an example of a KM technique that is practiced first in compliant drill, then through a progression of pad drills and less compliant scenario exercises, but which is not typically used full-force in sparring because it's deemed to be too dangerous for that application (in much the same way that combat shooters don't find it necessary to shoot people for target practice).

    I've explained that clearly, several times, and this is now the third time I've challenged you to specifically address it re. your contention that no pragmatic compromise is possible in teaching self defense.

    For the record, I don't think that you're genuinely so inexperienced as to not be able to follow what I'm telling you. That said, your increasingly hysterical tone ("this bitch's future rapists", etc.) reinforces the impression that your position is more dogmatic that reasonable; you might want to dial that down a bit in the interests of being taken seriously.
  4. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/16/2013 12:53am

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     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    The videos I posted demonstrate knee strikes as an example of a KM technique that is practiced first in compliant drill, then through a progression of pad drills and less compliant scenario exercises, but which is not typically used full-force in sparring because it's deemed to be too dangerous for that application (in much the same way that combat shooters don't find it necessary to shoot people for target practice).

    I've explained that clearly, several times, and this is now the third time I've challenged you to specifically address it re. your contention that no pragmatic compromise is possible in teaching self defense.

    For the record, I don't think that you're genuinely so inexperienced as to not be able to follow what I'm telling you. That said, your increasingly hysterical tone ("this bitch's future rapists", etc.) reinforces the impression that your position is more dogmatic that reasonable; you might want to dial that down a bit in the interests of being taken seriously.
    By the way why are kees too dangerous? I can see why you wouldn't load up to the head. But to the body and legs.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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  5. erezb is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2013 2:24am


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Okay.



    Show me the good stuff.
    considering guys going for KM are usually insecure and "soft", not athletic for sure, they are working hard.


    this is the more serious side of things

    some more
    Last edited by erezb; 9/16/2013 2:32am at .
  6. erezb is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2013 2:35am


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    KM, is best known for it's weapon defenses and such, it takes it's striking and everything else from othe MA like boxing/aikido/MT judo etc. so obviosly the best KM will look like a well rounded fighter, nothing more, which also might be able to defend a knife or fight two people better than your average fighter. When i did KM, we sparred every class. That is the key, full contact sparring, as with all MA. If you have a Judo/Aikido/MT based KM school, with ample and versatile sparring, you can do worst.
    Last edited by erezb; 9/16/2013 3:06am at .
  7. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/16/2013 6:40am

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     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    By the way why are kees too dangerous? I can see why you wouldn't load up to the head. But to the body and legs.
    I believe that they train with controlled knee strikes to the body (and full-contact to pads, etc.) on the understanding that the same attack will do greater damage if it strikes the enemy's face in a real fight, defaulting to the torso both as a larger, higher percentage target and re. safety against the risk of accidentally kneeing a training partner in the face during the type of freestyle scenario training shown in the videos.

    They presumably don't use full-power knee strikes in 1-on-1 sparring for similar reasons - basically, the risk of doing serious damage to a training partner being considered to outweigh the benefits.

    I realise that Kyokushin and Muay Thai both allow full-power knees in competitive sparring and note that combat athletes often take risks that might be unreasonable to demand of either soldiers in training or civilians looking for self defense lessons. KM, which emphasises sparring towards developing close combat/self defense skills, is intended and designed for the latter demographics; I maintain that their compromises for safety under those circumstances are reasonable and realistic.
  8. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2013 5:40pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    It is the move towards full speed compliant contact that is my issue. If you are good enough to go fast and hard then you are good enough for the other guy to be stopping you.
    There is a place for that, but of course it seems a lot of what we see of Krav videos stops there...one needs to train on what to do when the first response doesn't' work, etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    Happens with security training a lot. Because we are all hardy hard men. When we train we rack on the locks.

    It is fucking stupid. Here have my floppy arm. I will let you have the position and then you grind it untill I scream. Proves how effective the lock is see?

    Fundimentally train position before submission. deadly nut kick is a submission.
    LOL hardy hard men...

    Maybe Bullshido should put out a video of what alive Krav training should look like to help out?
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  9. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2013 6:02pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Maybe Bullshido should put out a video of what alive Krav training should look like to help out?
    Maybe krav should put out a video of what alive krav training should look like since they all say they have it but can't produce good video.
  10. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2013 6:32pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Maybe krav should put out a video of what alive krav training should look like since they all say they have it but can't produce good video.
    Krav is just an agglomeration of stuff as far as I can tell. In any case I was thinking satire, but serious would be interesting as well.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
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