French cane fencing (1900)

[lklawson]

I am not very good in multiple quoting, so I will take the freedom of answering two posts while quoting only one.

Zendokan:

I was not criticising La Canne in general, but schools of La Canne using flowery fencing techniques as found in sabre fencing. Afaik those schools have more or less died out over time and La Canne today is quite sturdy and pretty usefull in self-defense.

Quite the opposite, actually. Most of la Canne (as commonly recognized) is sporting and artistic. The large sweeps and over-emphasized moulinets are more features of the sport play and not so much represented in the less well known Dans de la Rue.

Also, FWIW, those "flowery" fencing techniques make a whole lot of sense when being used with an appropriate weapon. A heavy (in comparison to a la Canne "stick"), single-handed, basket/knuckle-bow hilted, saber/broadsword.

I'm not sure where at in the evolution of modern sport la Canne this historic clip is. I suspect we'd have to have an actual la Canne player tell us. However, this clip appears to be Saber fencing with the stick. It looks very similar to other clips from the era I've seen showing Saber fencing.

lklawson:

DB meetings are quite open. The process was much the same as with the early UFC. In the beginning you had lots of different styles attending. Lots of people thinking what they did would work. In the beginning there were Ninjas trying to compete in MMA. Now there are no Ninjas anymore.

Historical research has a great worth in its own. But it can hardly ever deliver factual proof of efficiency for a martial art (even if said martial art was practised by a successfull group/nation, there could be thousands of other factors which might have influenced their success, marginalising the effect of the martial art or at least making it impossible to judge its actual influence).

Much different from simply inviting every stickfigher around to an open match and recognizing that all the flowery fencers get bloody noses and no wins.

I'm not sure my question is answered.

Though Zendokan indicates that DBs have incorporated key elements of la Canne into the org, I'm still not aware of any of their research in that direction. (got any links, magazine refs, etc.?)

I'm also unaware of anyone ranked in la Canne showing up to a Gathering. I admit that I don't run in those circles but it's the sort of thing that you would think would generally get some sort of air play.

I for one have yet to see anyone successfully fighting in a full contact tournament like the DB meetings with sabre (or sabre like) techniques. Thus my sceptic take on the matters. I would be glad to see my stance on this matters corrected though.

"Attacking Blocks" is a key element of most western cutting/slashing sword systems. I've seen it in Military Saber, Shashqa, and Messer.

Now, if you're meaning to say that a stick ain't a sword and you don't fight with one in exactly the same way, then yeah, I agree 100%. Sticks are blunt impact weapons. It's a stick. HIT him with it. Swords are sharp and pointy. Drawcuts and thrusts are effective with swords and worthless with sticks (well, some stick thrusts are useful but not in the same way as a sword).

I also agree that using a stick to learn a sword system doesn't make you a stick fighter, for the same reasons as above.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs]

Though Zendokan indicates that DBs have incorporated key elements of la Canne into the org, I'm still not aware of any of their research in that direction. (got any links, magazine refs, etc.?)

I'm also unaware of anyone ranked in la Canne showing up to a Gathering. I admit that I don't run in those circles but it's the sort of thing that you would think would generally get some sort of air play.

The "fencing" attacks directed at the knees, it's a key-element of La Canne (used in the self-defence form as in the competition form).
IIRC it stood on the Dog-Brothers DVD that also discussed the incorparation of Krabi Krabong elements into their Kali.

I personally don't know of any fencing schools that attack the knees, but I have to say that my weapons experience is a little bit of Kali-Escrima, a little bit of Krabi Krabong, a little bit of La Canne and some JMA/KMA stick and tanto.

I'm more specialized in unarmed combat, because the Belgian weapon laws are strict: No firearms for civilians, knifes with a blade that exceeds the longest side of a creditcard will be considerd as carrying an illegal concealed weapon. Clubs adapted their interieurs, so that the chance that you will find a stick or metal pipe is nihil.

So unless there exists "metal ashtray-fu" and "beerglass-jitsu", the need to train a weapons art can be almost completely dismissed for self-defence purposes.
Most weapons artists train for the love of it, not for the need of it.