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  1. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 8:55pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Stone View Post

    If you use more force than is necessary, you were wrong. Period. It really is that simple. "Did you have to kill him?" Yes or no? If "yes," you'd be exonerated. If "no," then you failed and discipline is in order. Certainly there are gradations from each end of the spectrum as to what level of force is necessary. That's where the evidence comes in...

    Now that we're back full circle, it isn't about "sense," it's about evidence, nothing more.
    That's why there is a use of force guideline but not exact black and white. Because there is no black and white in a use of force. It would be nice if the inmate swings the cane at you, you tell him to stop, he swings again, you do a strait arm takedown to the ground, apply pressure point, then the inmate lets go of the cane, and you cuff him up without further problems.

    But we all know it does'nt work like that. Sometimes when you do a takedown, the inmate tries to twist out and breaks his own arm. A lawyer will just say you broke his arm. Sometimes authorized pressure points just don't work. Then you have to figure out how to disarm and restrain without hurting him or letting him hurt you.

    So how much force is necessary? Someone has to use sense to determine that because the guidelines can not be firmly defined. There are too many variables.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  2. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 8:57pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    In case you didn't notice, that happens to be what this entire thread is about.


    - http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...xrs0gD9F7CMT80

    Yes but the quote you used, I was not talking about this case. I was talking about my personal experiences. That is why I used the terms defense attorney and inmate.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  3. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 8:59pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel_tke View Post
    Yes but the quote you used, I was not talking about this case. I was talking about my personal experiences. That is why I used the terms defense attorney and inmate.
    If you didn't mean to imply that your personal experience pertained to this thread which is about people who are charged with breaking the law and covering it up, then perhaps you should have started a new thread to share it in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  4. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 9:02pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madgrenade View Post
    From the looks of this you're all singing from the same book. So the real question is- Did the SEALS give him a smack in the mouth while taking him into custody, or did they beat him up afterward?

    Well, as Matt says, the evidence proves the case. He got cleared, so it must have been someone's judgment that what he did was reasonable and appropriate. So either the covered it up well, the alleged witness was lying, or the judge used sense instead of evidence.. :-)
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  5. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 9:05pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    If you didn't mean to imply that your personal experience pertained to this thread which is about people who are charged with breaking the law and covering it up, then perhaps you should have started a new thread to share it in.

    That one paragraph in my quote was about something different. I think it is pretty clear if you are reading. But feel free to report my posts and trollshido them if you wish.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  6. Madgrenade is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 9:06pm


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    What happened to the other two defendants then?
  7. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 9:12pm

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    The only report I saw was of the one defendant.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  8. Madgrenade is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 9:14pm


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    Oh you're right. One guy charges with tassault and two others charged with bullshitting and dicking with investigators. Presume those were dropped?
  9. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 9:17pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madgrenade View Post
    Oh you're right. One guy charges with tassault and two others charged with bullshitting and dicking with investigators. Presume those were dropped?
    FTFA:

    McCabe of Perrysburg, Ohio, is charged with assaulting Abed at Camp Schwedler, a U.S. base near Fallujah. McCabe is scheduled to be court-martialed May 3 in Norfolk, Virginia, where the three sailors are based.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 9:30pm

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    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36645

    The first of three Navy SEALs to face a courts martial, Petty Officer 1st Class Julio Huertas, was cleared of all charges by a military jury early Thursday. The court martial began Wednesday for two of the three Navy SEALs accused of mistreating Abed, mastermind of the murder and mutilation of four Blackwater security guards in Fallujah in 2004.

    "It's a big weight off my shoulders," Huertas told NBCChicago.com as he left the courtroom. Hertas said he plans to continue his military career and is going home to “kiss my wife.”

    Defense lawyers in the Baghdad court martial of two Navy SEALS accused of mistreating Ahmed Hashim Abed presented evidence calling into question whether the Iraqi suffered any injuries, according to news reports from the trial.


    Military medics who examined Abed after the encounter testified that it did not look as if he had been beaten. And defense lawyers showed jurors photos of Abed after the time he said he was beaten with a visible cut inside his lip, but no obvious signs of bruising or other injuries, according to the Associated Press.

    Abed testified earlier that after he was captured from his home early last September, he was placed in a chair with his hands bound behind him and blindfolded. Abed said he was then struck from behind so hard that he fell to his knees, and then was struck again in the stomach, according to AP reports.

    "It was very powerful. It was so hard I fell down again on my face because my hands were behind my back," he said, speaking Arabic through an interpreter, AP reported.

    "Once I was down they put their foot in my shoulder; I started saying 'please, please' -- these were the only words that I knew."

    One witness testified he saw Abed being abused. Navy Petty Officer 3rd Class Kevin DeMartino testified that he saw Petty Officer 2nd Class Matthew McCabe punch the prisoner, and that Keefe and Huertas were in the holding room, CNN reported.

    But most of the other witnesses failed to corroborate that testimony. Of the 11 witnesses who testified -- half of whom are special forces or intelligence officers -- only one said he saw evidence of an assault, AP reported.

    As HUMAN EVENTS has reported, terrorists are trained to fake injury when in captivity. Chapter 18 of the Al Qaeda training manual, released by the U.S. Justice Department, said that members are directed to complain of torture and mistreatment.

    Keefe and faces charges of dereliction of duty by failing to safeguard Abed from abuse. Huertas had also faced a charge that he influenced the testimony of another sailor involved in the capture of Abed.

    HUMAN EVENTS along with several Republican Congressmen have stood in defense of Navy SEALS McCabe, Keefe, and Huertas garnering over 130,000 signatures in a petition to dismiss the charges.

    “I’m confident that these men are innocent,” Scott Taylor, a former Navy SEAL and Republican congressional candidate in Virginia's 2nd District, said on “Fox and Friends.” “It sends a horrible message to our troops as well as our enemies that all they have to do is accuse folks of beating them and you’ll have three of our top warriors taken off the battle field.”

    “SEALs are highly trained professional warriors, and they operate in very ambiguous situations and again you can’t have politics infused there at the battlefield level,” said Taylor.

    Petty Officer 2nd Class Matthew McCabe is the only SEAL charged with assault in the case. McCabe will testify on behalf of Keefe and Huertas in the Baghdad court martial. McCabe’s trail is May 3rd in Norfolk, Va.

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