Criticism Continues To Mount For The UFC

**Robstafarian** · Posted On: 12/08/2009 5:58pm

Originally Posted by edtang

Dream needs to better craft the next generation of crossover stars so that they can create some genuinely compelling feuds and characters that people will tune in and watch.

One of my favorite aspects about Dream is that the cards are about the fighters and their skill sets, not their personalities or feuds (of course, the Japanese love of spectacles is responsible for some notable exceptions. [See also: Sapp, Bob; Conseco, Jose]). The quality of the cards is my number one reason for watching Dream, with the lack of douchebag-oriented production being a lovely bonus.

**OZZ** · Posted On: 12/08/2009 6:37pm

What do you think about TUF and the implications that the make-believe drama and other bullshit has for the sport of mixed martial arts?
Seriously, Upa..I want to know what you think. Don't you think that it debases the sport and opens it up to that wider hillbilly audience? The same type of audience that boos a nice strategic groundfight.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 12/08/2009 8:51pm

Originally Posted by Jacob Marley's Ghost

What do you think about TUF and the implications that the make-believe drama and other bullshit has for the sport of mixed martial arts?
Seriously, Upa..I want to know what you think. Don't you think that it debases the sport and opens it up to that wider hillbilly audience? The same type of audience that boos a nice strategic groundfight.

I think TUF, outside of the training scenes and outside of fights, is shitty and attracts viewer based on all the crappy methods that always are attracted to trash reality shows. I'd much rather watch top chef than the first half hour of most TUF episodes. I hate that Chris Leben was once described as "charismatic" as opposed to the more appropriate adjectives: "stupid", "infantile" and a waste of air.

That's been my opinion of TUF since 2005.

Despite that view though I do recognize that TUF is in large part responsible for the success of MMA in North America. It also has had the direct effect of increasing the number of people training allowing my coach to now teach full time and have us move first to our own gym after training in a krotty daycare school for years and now to have moved to a very large training facility with a full cage, ring and giant mat space along with having dedicated MT, boxing, wrestling and judo instruction.

Basically I recognize that despite my own aversion to much of what goes on in regards to reality television TUF has been very successful in promoting and frankly pivotal in saving mma.

**T3hJudoChop** · Posted On: 12/09/2009 9:44am

Originally Posted by UpaLumpa

I think TUF, outside of the training scenes and outside of fights, is shitty and attracts viewer based on all the crappy methods that always are attracted to trash reality shows. I'd much rather watch top chef than the first half hour of most TUF episodes. I hate that Chris Leben was once described as "charismatic" as opposed to the more appropriate adjectives: "stupid", "infantile" and a waste of air.

That's been my opinion of TUF since 2005.

Despite that view though I do recognize that TUF is in large part responsible for the success of MMA in North America. It also has had the direct effect of increasing the number of people training allowing my coach to now teach full time and have us move first to our own gym after training in a krotty daycare school for years and now to have moved to a very large training facility with a full cage, ring and giant mat space along with having dedicated MT, boxing, wrestling and judo instruction.

Basically I recognize that despite my own aversion to much of what goes on in regards to reality television TUF has been very successful in promoting and frankly pivotal in saving mma.

truth.

especially the top chef part.

Kevin's beard FTW!

**OZZ** · Posted On: 12/09/2009 9:45am

Well, it certainly has helped grow the sport. I just don't neccessarily think this is such a good thing. Every jerk on the street and working the door in the bars is 'training to be an MMA fighter' now. It won't be long before they are giving out belts in 'MMA'.
This is the same type of explosion that led to the ruin of CMA and Karate in North America. Although I don't think the implications this time around will be the same.MMA requires that you learn how to fight, whereas the public in the 1970's was duped into thinking that you were learning to fight by doing kata.
I guess I am just focusing more on the negative then I am on the positive.
We'll see where things are in a few years.

**edtang** · Posted On: 12/09/2009 9:52am

Originally Posted by Jacob Marley's Ghost

blahblahblah

If you don't like the image or marketing of the UFC, there's plenty of alternatives out there for you to get your sportive MMA on that you can watch, be it local indy MMA or the smaller sport oriented promotions in Japan (like Shooto). Until then, I still think you're being incredibly condescending to those of us who watch and enjoy the entertainment side to mainstream Japanese and US MMA. Just because you think you're some sort of purist (and here's a hint: you're not really) doesn't mean the rest of the fans are inbred expensive tshirt wearing hicks.

**T3hJudoChop** · Posted On: 12/09/2009 10:08am

Originally Posted by Jacob Marley's Ghost

Well, it certainly has helped grow the sport. I just don't neccessarily think this is such a good thing. Every jerk on the street and working the door in the bars is 'training to be an MMA fighter' now.

So people being able to make a living off both training and fighting in MMA is a bad thing?

Every jerk on the street and working the door in the bars is 'training to be an MMA fighter' now.

Man, I knew about MMA before anyone was even talking about it.

This is the same type of explosion that led to the ruin of CMA and Karate in North America.

Boxing or kickboxing might be a more apt comparison. You're looking at MMA as a martial art instead of what it essentially is: a sport. Yes, MMA offers skills that translate into other combat scenarios, but it is a sport. You can't compare CMA and Karate to MMA since neither really were developed into a sport in the US.

Although I don't think the implications this time around will be the same.MMA requires that you learn how to fight, whereas the public in the 1970's was duped into thinking that you were learning to fight by doing kata.
I guess I am just focusing more on the negative then I am on the positive.
We'll see where things are in a few years.

If the various promoters are shrewd with their development, the sport has plenty of room to grow. I see it peaking eventually, but I actually think, when international markets are taken into account, the sport has a long way to go before it reaches that point.

**OZZ** · Posted On: 12/09/2009 10:50am

Originally Posted by edtang

If you don't like the image or marketing of the UFC, there's plenty of alternatives out there for you to get your sportive MMA on that you can watch, be it local indy MMA or the smaller sport oriented promotions in Japan (like Shooto). Until then, I still think you're being incredibly condescending to those of us who watch and enjoy the entertainment side to mainstream Japanese and US MMA. Just because you think you're some sort of purist (and here's a hint: you're not really) doesn't mean the rest of the fans are inbred expensive tshirt wearing hicks.

Did I say I was purist? If you aren't one of the ignorant 'inbred expensive tshirt wearing hicks' then don't get all excited.

But if the shoe fits..:icon_mrgr

I have made all the points I want to make and I am done here..Merry X-Mas !!

**bigstu31s** · Posted On: 12/09/2009 12:38pm

I know you guys in the US have to pay to watch UFC events whereas us over the pond get to watch them all for free, providing you have ESPN.
I think if the number of UFC events increases then maybe another weight division would help makes things more exciting as we would get more title fights then.

That said a title fight doesn’t guarantee an exciting fight and quite often the undercard where some relatively unknowns fight are often the most exciting.