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  1. zipit777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2010 2:46pm


     Style: Reality Self Defense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Its up to you guys, if you need further verification just let me know, I am sure my guy will contact his resources in Israel no problem...
  2. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2010 4:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zipit777 View Post
    Its up to you guys, if you need further verification just let me know, I am sure my guy will contact his resources in Israel no problem...
    Yes, please do. If he can verify (or refute) the stature of the signators on Sonnon's LOTAR cert, that would be helpful.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  3. zipit777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2010 4:41pm


     Style: Reality Self Defense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think he did refute them, he said it would have either been in English or in Hebrew (Not both) if I'm not mistaken, but I will get a confirmation...
  4. Gidi is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2010 5:19pm


     Style: Judo (noob) & BJJ (noob)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I thought that the fact the cert. is real was already proven.
    Its also as far as I can tell a thank you letter and not a certificate of any kind. I remember reading all this info on this thread.
  5. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2010 8:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As long as Bashan is legit, then the LOTAR document is Kosher. If he were to turn out to be less than legit, then Scott would have a problem. I don't think that will happen, but we have a free offer of independent verification.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  6. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2010 9:10pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Please verify if possible.
  7. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2010 11:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    Here are Sonnon's credentials as listed in substantially the same form on numerous sites. this list is taken from http://www.usadojo.com/biographies/scott-sonnon.htm


    1993 World University Games SOMBO Silver medalist (USSA, FIAS)

    I want to focus in on this one for a bit because it is one of two victiories Scott has that justify his HMOS requirement for "international championships"


    For those of you unfamiliar with the World University Games, they are effectively the olympic games for university athletes, and are considered the top international amateur athletic competition after the Olympiad.


    The 1993 games held in Buffalo NY, and were inagurated by President Clinton on 7/8/93, concluding in 7/18/93.

    This is what Scott says about his experience there (from his own blog http://www.rmaxinternational.com/hom...d=191&Itemid=0 ) :


    I will save my comments about Scott being an "International San Shou champion" for another time. For the time being, I have the following comments:

    1)There is indeed a stamp on Mr Sonnon's SAMBO passbook, indicating that he competed in SAMBO in the University games, in Buffalo, in 1993. The problem being that the date given is several days before any competition began in any sport.

    ... continued next post down ...

    Edit: I just noticed that Scott mistates the location as being in Canada (above). He locates it correctly elsewhere. I will dig up references for that.
    .....
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  8. Matt Phillips is offline
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

    Join Date
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2010 11:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    ...cont...



    2) here is an exhaustive list of the sports contesting for medals at the 1993 games:
    Notice that SAMBO (or Sombo) is not among them. SAMBO has, in fact, never been an official sport of these games, demonstration or otherwise. In 2008 sponsorship was given to the World University SAMBO cup ( http://www.fisu.net/en/2008-World-Un...-Cup-2635.html ) by the FISU, which sanctions the World University Games, FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME and as an event OUTSIDE the regular games. There was no official SAMBO competition to be won at the 1993 games.

    3) The event Sonnon refers to was both unofficial, and held at the "World Cultural Festival" that is often held in parallel with the University Games. These festivals focus primarily on performances of culturally significant art forms such as Mime and Hula and stilt walking. In 1993 a small SAMBO tourney given permission to take place in the same building as the cultural festival, although not as an official event.

    4) Mr Sonnon's opponent in the match he describes above was Mr Zurab Bekochvili then of Brooklyn NY. I spoke with Mr Bekochvilli by phone on several occasions and received the following description: Mr Bekochvilli and Mr Sonnon fought at 180# in the match for 1st place. Mr Sonnon was submitted by flying armbar. Sonnon's "free" arm was pinned beneath him when he fell to the mat. Unable to tap, sonnon screamed for the ref to end the fight as his arm was broken. Mr Bekochvili has a vhs of this (and his other) matches from that day.
    To listen to Scott, this is a silver medal win in the 2nd most significant amateur athletic competion on the international scene, in which he loses the match for gold in heroic fashion. In fact, it was an unofficial tourney at a dance festival taking place in Buffalo days before the University Games even started, in which he defeated a single player, andvanced to the finals, got his arm snapped, and verbally submitted (ie: screamed).

    More later
    Bumping the non LOTAR part of the thread
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  9. zipit777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2010 12:13am


     Style: Reality Self Defense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here is what I got back from my guy, Dont know if it holds bearing after the newer posts but you let me know what you want me to do:

    Hi Tommy,

    I can find out really quick if the signatures are legit...
    The thank you letter in a form of a certificate is prepared for marketing purposes though.
    I'm pretty sure Mr. Sonnon had done a fitness seminar over there and now claims to do the Israeli "SF" conditioning program to boost his sales...
    Either way I will check it out for you shortly.
  10. BowToYourMaster is offline

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    Aug 2010
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    1

    Posted On:
    8/10/2010 8:57pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Scott Sonnon Cull: Who is therma

    Here's the official event list for the 1993 Universiade games: http://universiade.fjct.fit.ac.jp/en...alo/index.html

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