Thread: Mr. Utah's Black Belt Mag letter
11/29/2009 8:04pm, #11
I was thinking the same thing. That the armbar was not on all the way. I think in their zealousness they jumped in too soon to "save" his arm. Being a muscle head he thought he was safe though.
Sad because still to this day guys show up in the gym and think that because they are not in immediate pain that they are safe from injury. When its only because of my kindness.Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
11/29/2009 8:05pm, #12
I found rebuttal letters written by both Pedro Sauer and the man who officiated the match. Both letters are on the same page:
Essentially, they said Mr. Utah tapped.
11/29/2009 8:20pm, #13
11/30/2009 10:50pm, #14
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
What i always loved about that video is that it seems like Mr. Utah is reaching to gouge at Pedro Saur's eyes when he gets arm barred..
11/30/2009 11:19pm, #15
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
The armbar was clearly locked in. However, I can't say I saw Mr Utah tap.
11/30/2009 11:34pm, #16
12/01/2009 8:51am, #17
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
12/01/2009 10:20am, #18
I can see Omega's point. I just have a hard time believing Mr. Utah completely understood what was going on . . . but surely he knew that he had to tap or have his arm popped, and if he won't tap, surely it's better to pop the arm and make it clear.
But I say that with the hindsight of 17 years of intervening history. Honestly, I thought the bodybuilder did very well for 1994. I'm skeptical of his claim in his letter that he never had a single martial arts class--he looks like maybe that means that he didn't consider wrestling a martial art--but he did a good job of flowing and dealing with Sauer's sweeps and movement on the ground. That said, if he had zero experience in any martial art at all, it's entirely possible that the people on the scene saw the danger and he didn't--or even that he forgot how to submit in the moment.
And after all, no Gracie school would do anything shady, would they?
I thought it looked like he was going for a gouge when he got armbarred, too, and I even thought of making a "Deadly Eye Gouge < Armbar" picture out of that still frame. I figured eye gouging had been allowed, but he says in his letter that biting and eye gouges are the only prohibited techniques. He also claims to be blind, so maybe he was just feeling his way to some kind of hold on Sauer's head or trying to put his hand over Sauer's face. Neither seems like a good idea.
I dunno, maybe he just didn't know the terminology, but to think you've "twisted around" your opponent and now his armbar is neutralized makes me think you were about to get a rude awakening.
12/01/2009 10:42am, #19
This is what I saw:
When the arm was sunk in the knees of Pedro were separated with the legs crossed not allowing for proper extension or control. I saw a surprised look when the ref jumped in, which means that Mr. Utah was even feeling the arm hyper extending. I've also seen enough "sunk in" armbars escaped from by inexperienced practitioners that I'm willing to give Utah the benefit of the doubt.
So like I said what makes everybody such an armbar expert that they're so sure that armbar was actually fully sunk in?
12/01/2009 10:45am, #20
How much submission grappling experience do you have?
Edit: Damn it, beaten to the punch, again!