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  1. dwkfym is offline
    dwkfym's Avatar

    Yours truly

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 12:05am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     PDS Rifles Style: Univ. Florida Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I thought they were all tendons?



    Quote from a website I googled:
    "...the fingers are special, because there are no muscles inside the fingers. The muscles which bend the finger joints are located in the palm and up in the mid forearm, and are connected to the finger bones by tendons, which pull on and move the fingers like the strings of a marionette. "
      #21
  2. socratic is offline

    How do elenchus?

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 12:06am


     Style: gah, transition again

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Tanuki View Post
    I'm sure you could with such a claim.
    It's worked for me in a real fight and that's all that matters to me. It's helped me in my Kyokushin kumite as well. I use it because it's good for me.
    It may not be good for MMA, but that is a whole other ballgame.
    It's highly effective against someone who isn't a martial artist and just wants to pick a fight with the wrong martial artist.
    It also matters where your target on the body is being hit. Are you hitting him in the shoulder or are you hitting him on the chin? Is it hitting his cheek or hitting him in the solar plexus?
    For the time it takes for one haymaker to reach the target you could have struck the person several times with chain punching.
    I think it makes a good deal of sense.
    The problem isn't in the technique. The problem is within yourself. That's my personal belief.
    You must have a shitty kyokushin club to get away with chain punching. There's vids on youtube of Kyokushinka ripping apart Wing Chunners trying to chain punch. Sure they take a bunch of chain-punches, but the punches don't actually do anything except maybe mess up the dude's nicely-tucked-in gi.

    And wtf!? How can you train something hardcore and effective like kyokushin and then turn around and go "Okay I want to be a ***** now, Wing chun time!"
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32
      #22
  3. socratic is offline

    How do elenchus?

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 12:53am


     Style: gah, transition again

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwkfym View Post
    I thought they were all tendons?

    Quote from a website I googled:
    "...the fingers are special, because there are no muscles inside the fingers. The muscles which bend the finger joints are located in the palm and up in the mid forearm, and are connected to the finger bones by tendons, which pull on and move the fingers like the strings of a marionette. "
    Smarty duds.
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32
      #23
  4. Mr.Tanuki is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 7:33am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: CMA and JMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by socratic View Post
    You must have a shitty kyokushin club to get away with chain punching. There's vids on youtube of Kyokushinka ripping apart Wing Chunners trying to chain punch. Sure they take a bunch of chain-punches, but the punches don't actually do anything except maybe mess up the dude's nicely-tucked-in gi.

    And wtf!? How can you train something hardcore and effective like kyokushin and then turn around and go "Okay I want to be a ***** now, Wing chun time!"
    I'm actually on the board here in Kobe for the Oyama branch. Any veteran of any style will tell you that the style does not matter. It matters on who is using it and how good they are at it.

    I'll give an example so you might understand.
    Muhammad Ali was a great boxer (and by defacto a good martial artist). So are you saying that because he didn't grapple he'd lose in a real fight, because he only ever used his hands?

    Kyokushin is good, but it does not cover every aspect of combat. I filled in those gaps with Wing Tsun and my Northern Dragon gung-fu.
    I'm happy with what I do and I'm not insecure about myself to call everyone else's style "worthless".

    So what you wish to tell me is that because of youtube you've seen every possible outcome of a fight scenario?

    So I am sure you've seen these fights and wing-chun user's correct?
    YouTube- Wing Chun Bing Fa Kung Fu, Si sook Adrian de Boers 1995 Vs Kyokushin Karate

    YouTube- Ving Tsun and M.M.A. (freefight technics) 2

    and you'd also be saying the Chinese martial arts aren't good enough to your standard of martial arts. Yet, I see this guy winning a full-contact bare-knuckle fight?
    YouTube- Very rare fight kung fu vs taekwondo (Master Ehsan Shafiq)
      #24
  5. MMAMickey is offline
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    POWERRR!

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 7:58am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Tanuki View Post
    I'll give an example so you might understand.
    Muhammad Ali was a great boxer (and by defacto a good martial artist). So are you saying that because he didn't grapple he'd lose in a real fight, because he only ever used his hands?
    if this 'real fight' was against a wrestler.. then yes

    Kyokushin is good, but it does not cover every aspect of combat. I filled in those gaps with Wing Tsun and my Northern Dragon gung-fu.
    Kyokushin covers close range fighting, I often have seen KK fighters doing shovel hooks to the body and kneeing to the head when in close.. both of which are substantially more damaging than Wing Chun. It's Like saying that walking doesn't cover every aspect of travel, so your going to supplement it by dragging yourself around the floor
      #25
  6. MrGalt is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 10:01am


     Style: Seidokaikan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Tanuki View Post
    I'm actually on the board here in Kobe for the Oyama branch.
    That's really cool. It's also a pretty easily backed-up claim and there would be a shiny tag in it for you.

    Of course, it's not at all unusual especially in Japan for someone to train in a hardcore style and a less-alive style. The head of my dojo (2nd in command of the style when the founder isn't in prison) is also a high-ranking Aikido BB.

    Just to verify though since everyone else has read this between the lines but you haven't said it straight out, you really use chain punching in KK competition in Japan?

    You really have time to be that heavy a KK player and still crosstrain in two other styles? Where's your kung fu in Hyogo anyway? I have a buddy in Sannomiya who loves kung fu. It would be great to be able to hook him up.

    If you aren't punching to the head though, my experience has been that if you don't accidentally tag somebody's elbow or ulna in general your knuckles are substantially harder than whatever you are going to hit, especially if you've conditioned them well. I see guys hitting with bottom three, guys hitting with top two, and guys who don't seem to be paying attention at all at my dojo, although the official party line is that we use the top two.
      #26
  7. MMAMickey is offline
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    POWERRR!

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 10:15am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BTW all three of those videos are garbage.. the first one, both guys are awful, the second one is completely compliant, and the third one (although impressive kicks) only worked because the other guy was also spinning around with his hands down
      #27
  8. Mr.Tanuki is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 10:15am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: CMA and JMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrGalt View Post
    That's really cool. It's also a pretty easily backed-up claim and there would be a shiny tag in it for you.

    Of course, it's not at all unusual especially in Japan for someone to train in a hardcore style and a less-alive style. The head of my dojo (2nd in command of the style when the founder isn't in prison) is also a high-ranking Aikido BB.

    Just to verify though since everyone else has read this between the lines but you haven't said it straight out, you really use chain punching in KK competition in Japan?

    You really have time to be that heavy a KK player and still crosstrain in two other styles? Where's your kung fu in Hyogo anyway? I have a buddy in Sannomiya who loves kung fu. It would be great to be able to hook him up.

    If you aren't punching to the head though, my experience has been that if you don't accidentally tag somebody's elbow or ulna in general your knuckles are substantially harder than whatever you are going to hit, especially if you're conditioned them well. I see guys hitting with bottom three, guys hitting with top two, and guys who don't seem to be paying attention at all at my dojo, although the official party line is that we use the top two.
    Oh god no, not in the competition!
    In Kyokushin tournaments everything is pretty straight in the rules. I rarely compete anymore, infact the last bout I was in was last year. I've been taking martial arts now for almost 15 years and I've stayed straight in Kyokushin and with my Northern Dragon. I was taking both from two different schools when I was younger. I picked up Wing Tsun later as I had a general interest in it.
    I've never regretted it either. I know everyone here gives it hell, but I think it's a good martial art.

    My studio isn't that far from Sannomiya actually! Right now my school allows me to use their floor space to teach.The students are also students of the school. My class is small right now because of the small floor space I've got. It's not much, but it suits our needs.

    Hopefully I will be able to get a larger place from the studio. I'll let you know if and when the deal goes through.
    The only other Gung-fu school I know of in Kobe area is the Hung-sing school run by John Aogishi. But, I think most of his classes are on Rokko Island? I'm not sure about that though.

    He might also be the head instructor of the Tai Chi Chuan class in Shin-Kobe. I saw them one time on Sunday at the outdoor park doing push hands. Really good stuff.
    Last edited by Mr.Tanuki; 11/27/2009 10:50am at .
      #28
  9. Mr.Tanuki is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 10:21am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: CMA and JMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MMAMickey View Post
    BTW all three of those videos are garbage.. the first one, both guys are awful, the second one is completely compliant, and the third one (although impressive kicks) only worked because the other guy was also spinning around with his hands down
    Can't argue with what you see on youtube. Apparently this is because it's a god-send here to most people like yourself.
    I simply state that Wing Chun isn't the problem. Hell, the martial art itself isn't the problem. It's the person.
    There is no "only worked" business. It's a simple matter of "what worked".
    You seem to see martial arts as only a way to compete. I, on the other hand, see martial arts as a way to make sure you don't die when in a real fight.
    You and I simply disagree. Nothing wrong in that.
      #29
  10. MrGalt is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 10:25am


     Style: Seidokaikan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Tanuki View Post
    Oh god no, not in the competition!
    In Kyokushin tournaments everything is pretty straight in the rules. I rarely compete anymore, infact the last bout I was in was last year.
    Thanks for the clarification. I noticed you hadn't actually mentioned where you "use" chain punching when you said it, so I wanted to reserve my reaction until you did. So in what setting do you use it?

    I'm just at the other end of the Hankyu line from you. I might make it out that way someday. I wonder if there will ever be enough of us for a Kansai throwdown.
      #30
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