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  1. Whathappened is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2009 9:45am


     Style: Wing Chun Kuen

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MMAMickey View Post
    the chun strikes with the last three knuckles. they are not exactly known for their power. use the first two. now.
    Read Philip Starr's book Martial Mechanics: Maximum Results with Minimum Effort in the Practice of the Martial Arts

    It has very good breakdown on why certain strikes work the way they do and thus a reader with some hand-to-hand experience will understand (at least I did) which punches are best suited for which set of knuckles (1st two or last three).

    I could go into details if so desired (my local library has it)
      #11
  2. Mr.Tanuki is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2009 9:57am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: CMA and JMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've got my black belt in Kyokushin and everything we do here (in Japan) is bare knuckle.
    You know how we strike with the first two knucles being slightly extended and all that. I also am a Wing Chun user and with that I see a very good principle of using short distance for rapid punching. Once again, this is done bare knuckle and full contact, but with our last three knuckles.
    The MMA guys will argue up and down that they are right and traditionalist are wrong.
    But I don't need to argue with them, I know what works for me and I'm not insecure about myself and what I do to argue that I'm always right.
    I say find what works for you. Experiement. That's what training is for. The only real way to learn is to do it yourself.
      #12
  3. Whathappened is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2009 12:11pm


     Style: Wing Chun Kuen

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ^ sort of agree. There's this concept of optimum striking angles that the book covers.

    e.g. Assuming no changes in body structure/stance, the sunfist (aka WC punch) delivers effective striking between 90 to 45, whereas, the traditional straight punch is effective from 90 to 135.

    Granted there's way around it by changing body structure/stance, but I think its comparing apples to oranges.
      #13
  4. MMAMickey is offline
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    POWERRR!

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2009 1:23pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Tanuki View Post
    I also am a Wing Chun user and with that I see a very good principle of using short distance for rapid punching. Once again, this is done bare knuckle and full contact, but with our last three knuckles.
    Right, i'm not going to go off on a Chun tangent.. I'm not even going to complain that you use the last three knuckles..

    but in 'close range' chain punching is the absolute least effective technique available. seriously. I could fart at that range and do more damage.
      #14
  5. Mr.Tanuki is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2009 6:07pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: CMA and JMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MMAMickey View Post
    Right, i'm not going to go off on a Chun tangent.. I'm not even going to complain that you use the last three knuckles..

    but in 'close range' chain punching is the absolute least effective technique available. seriously. I could fart at that range and do more damage.
    I'm sure you could with such a claim.
    It's worked for me in a real fight and that's all that matters to me. It's helped me in my Kyokushin kumite as well. I use it because it's good for me.
    It may not be good for MMA, but that is a whole other ballgame.
    It's highly effective against someone who isn't a martial artist and just wants to pick a fight with the wrong martial artist.
    It also matters where your target on the body is being hit. Are you hitting him in the shoulder or are you hitting him on the chin? Is it hitting his cheek or hitting him in the solar plexus?
    For the time it takes for one haymaker to reach the target you could have struck the person several times with chain punching.
    I think it makes a good deal of sense.
    The problem isn't in the technique. The problem is within yourself. That's my personal belief.
      #15
  6. Dex 2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2009 6:57pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Whathappened,

    Thank you for the reference.

    My sport 'combative' experience was in free-style wrestling and judo, when I was a teen. At that time and place, grappling was not as sophisticated as today. My 'street' experience consisted mostly of punching, fisticuffs. I've no memory of what knuckles I used, but never injured a hand hitting a person. The only knuckle injury came after I lost my temper and hit a metal elevator cab wall. A few minutes after I walked away, noticed the first right knuckle was swollen three times normal size.

    Anyway, I keep coming across styles pushing different methods and wanted to learn from others' experience.

    Thanks again.
      #16
  7. jspeedy is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2009 7:42pm


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by alpha2six View Post
    remember. Your fingers have no muscles, so your push ups are from your forearms up. if you have strong forearms etc.., then its easy to do push ups on any knuckle.

    The problem with strikes with your knuckles is that they are not all equal in mass.. the bones in your index and middle are larger, while the bones in your ring and pinky are smaller.. This is why it's generally better to condition the ring and pinky, or stick to striking with your index and middle.

    I learned the hard way with this.. hit a guy square with the ring and pinky.. My left pinky knuckle is flattened now. The good thing is that I still have mobility in the finger due to the fact that I only need mere forearm strength to retain movement.

    My opinion.. learn to strike effectively, for now, with your first two.. while conditioning the last two.

    If you know how to do a proper knife hand, then your thumb is braced against the integrity of the rest of your hand.

    There are three nerves that run to your hand.. the median, ulnar, and radial.. They all have about equal function.. so.. regardless.. you're gonna have to condition your hands and strengthen them to minimize pain.
    Fingers have no muscles? How do you suppose they move then?
      #17
  8. dwkfym is offline
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    Yours truly

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2009 10:49pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     PDS Rifles Style: Univ. Florida Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In middle school I got in a fight with this one kid who no one liked. I was a really nice kid, kinda harmless as a puppy. One of those psycho snap moments. I was hitting with middle knuckles. It grazed his chin the wrong way and ended up with boxer fracture. I told mom it was just a sprain and it was fine, and my mom took me to the hospital anyways.
    Doc thought it was funny, and told me not to get in any more fights. (I grew up in part of Korea where kids fight all the time, it was kind of "accepted" there.)

    Bone behind knuckle broken in two places, barely hanging on. In X-ray it looked like it was floating. Bonesetting was pretty hardcore painful. Like forcing and jamming it back in place. Hand bent in a half D shape over and over and over and over and over again.
    Felt every damn second of it.. Doc yelling "stop crying you wuss!"

    Anyways, I don't think its a reason not to punch with middle knuckles but my master at the time told it was because I didn't listen to his advice about knuckles #1,2.
      #18
  9. Bugeisha is online now

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2009 11:37pm


     Style: Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jspeedy View Post
    Fingers have no muscles? How do you suppose they move then?
    The muscles are in the palm, and up to the mid-forearm.
      #19
  10. socratic is offline

    How do elenchus?

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2009 11:57pm


     Style: gah, transition again

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bugeisha View Post
    The muscles are in the palm, and up to the mid-forearm.
    They anchor on to your fingers. That's how your fingers move. That's like saying your chest has no muscles because your pec technically anchors onto your shoulder.
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32
      #20
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