Shamrock vs Gracie 2, something I'm not sure to understand...

[Rivington]

You seem to misunderstand me. I simply maintain that FOR THE SHEER TECHNICAL SIDE of rape defense, BJJ is an excellent choice, as most rapes culminate in some sort of groundfight, armed or unarmed.

And as I've pointed out a number of times, and which you have just agreed with, you're wrong. I don't misunderstand you. You misunderstand your own position even as you acknowledge that mine is right.

Scenario A rapes do not "culminate in some sort of groundfight"

Scenario B rapes do not "culminate in some sort of groundfight"

Scenario C rapes do not "culminate in some sort of groundfight", or at least not most often.

Scenario D rapes can sometimes "culminate in some sort of groundfight" but may not, especially since they can often devolve in Scenario B rapes.

Now, A, B, C, and D rapes are very common—more common than Guy in the Bushes Rapes (Scenario E).

Yes, for Scenario E, BJJ training would be great. BJJ training is great for lots of reasons, actually. "Rape prevention" is by far the least of those.

But the majority of rapes are not E rapes, so when you say (emphases mine in the following):

"as most rapes culminate in some sort of groundfight, armed or unarmed"

or

"the basic mechanics of rape would be the same regardless of the nature of the attacker"

or

"the female in a sexual assault is extremely likely to get taken down by the typically larger and stronger rapist"

You are simply wrong. Most rapes do not culminate in a groundfight, the basic mechanics are not the same across all types of rape (most of which do not involve great physical struggles against an unarmed rapist), and it is not extremely likely that a female victim would "get taken down" unless you mean taken down by booze or pills two hours before the rape.

The problem is that the question of rape defense simply isn't a technical question for the majority of rapes. So when you want to make a technical claim, you end up pretending that most rapes are composed of a groundfighting match between a big brute and a small woman. The plurality of rapes (at the very least) take place in the context of some sort of relationship or with drugs/alcohol playing a part, so when you make expansive claims about how most rapes end up being physically carried out, you're just wrong.

[wingchunx2z]

you're just a bully, plain and simple :stop:

lol, alot fo peolpe on this site are bullies. they even cal thems evels that BULL-ies. You ahve to have a thick skin if you're going to try to post here.

However, I adressed your questinos from a technical standpoint and several examples from my expereince wihtout resorting to character attacks. The thing is people here have little to no patience for stuff they deem annoying and repetitive. I get the same flack for bringing up arguments in the chun or saying i do thigns a certain way when b/c im not an expert I cant form an opinion. Best way to deal with that is to ignore them and say what u want. at least in the USA we have freedom of speech.

If you're really concerned about it try goign to a BJJ class to cehck it out and see what you think of it. It's really the only way to answer your question completely.

[pmosiun]

there is something I don't really understand... in such a situation, where a BJJ fighter pulls guard for 30 minutes without actually doing anything but wait for a mistake that will never come, what would happen if the person on top would simply grab his throat with both hands and start choke him out? Is there a anwser for this in BJJ?

GJJ philosophy is to tire your opponent and waiting for him to make a mistake and you would capitalize on it. Yes, if the person above you try to do that, you can armbar him.

I once considered taking up BJJ classes for self defence, but lately BJJ seems to have lost it's supremacy in MMA. Now that strikers know how to wrestle and avoid takedown, submissions doesn't seem to happen nearly as often as it used too.

In the street, there are not many trained MMA fighters and if you plan on competing in amateur MMA, you do need to be good at the three range of stand up, clinch and ground.

And I tought maybe BJJ could help in a rape scenario but I'm not too sure anymore, as physical strenght seems important in order to pull off submissions. Not to mention the guard is pretty useless in such a scenario...

Bjj does help in this situation, just go to your nearest school and roll or spar.

Back to the MMA subject, while I really aknowledge the usefulness of grappling, I also think pure grapplers are the most boring fighters around. The gracies might have great records but I've seen Royce, Renzo, Rickson and Royler fight and I'm simply not exited at all by that kind of fighting. At least now there's the re-start rule, so no more 45 minutes stalemates in guard position like in early pride.

Boring but effective, you do not waste energy.

[Rivington]

Is being waked up by your boyfriend doing you is rape?

It can be. Context matters to a certain extent, of course.

But I don't think any police officer would take this seriously at all.

For a long time, the authorities didn't take claims of married women being raped by their husbands seriously either. That's just a social tragedy that has luckily, been resolved to a certain extent.

At any rate, I agree with Kickapoo that you should go to the police or at least a women's center for legal advice if you feel that you were raped while in your last relationship. Try here: http://violsecours.qc.ca/

[Osaka peach]

lol, alot fo peolpe on this site are bullies. they even cal thems evels that BULL-ies. You ahve to have a thick skin if you're going to try to post here.

However, I adressed your questinos from a technical standpoint and several examples from my expereince wihtout resorting to character attacks. The thing is people here have little to no patience for stuff they deem annoying and repetitive. I get the same flack for bringing up arguments in the chun or saying i do thigns a certain way when b/c im not an expert I cant form an opinion. Best way to deal with that is to ignore them and say what u want. at least in the USA we have freedom of speech.

If you're really concerned about it try goign to a BJJ class to cehck it out and see what you think of it. It's really the only way to answer your question completely.

Well it seems whenever I bring up a question, there is a person coming up at me telling me I'm retarded and stupid. I know this site is full of bullies but still... there's a way to tell people they are wrong without unleashing the insult artillery right away.

[Osaka peach]

It can be. Context matters to a certain extent, of course.



For a long time, the authorities didn't take claims of married women being raped by their husbands seriously either. That's just a social tragedy that has luckily, been resolved to a certain extent.

At any rate, I agree with Kickapoo that you should go to the police or at least a women's center for legal advice if you feel that you were raped while in your last relationship. Try here: http://violsecours.qc.ca/

I've been told that by a few of my friends... I have a problem of feeling guilty to say no also, and I guess that's an abusive man's wet dream. Then again it's a very delicate situation, maybe I've been attracting the wrong type of guys because I'm shy and I don't look too confident:dontknow:

no amout of JKD, boxing or BJJ will be of any use regarding this I guess

[t3h d3adly]

biggest thread de-rail ever... back on topic Shamrock and Gracie 2 = softcore porn

[Shawarma]

I still don't appear to be getting my point across to you, Riv. We're still talking about completely different things.

But whatever. This discussion is going nowhere and I have elsewhere to be.

[Rivington]

I still don't appear to be getting my point across to you, Riv. We're still talking about completely different things.

No, I get your point. We are talking about precisely the same thing. You just think BJJ will help because you believe that groundfighting is common in rapes and that "game changers" like weapons, non-physical coercion, and drugs/alcohol are exceptions or somehow irrelevant because you only want to talk about "technical" elements.

In point of fact, the opposite is true. I'll be clear: you are giving bad advice to women who may be concerned about rape.

[wingchunx2z]

:dontknow:

no amout of JKD, boxing or BJJ will be of any use regarding this I guess

that's true, only the one true art of Wing Chun can give you that confidence.