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  1. Kickapoo is offline
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    Sick double leg.

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 2:59pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Osaka peach View Post
    And why do you have to resort to insults to make your point? So I guess manipulative men are alright after all, since you're implying that a girl that says yes out of manipulation is the one to blame, not the men taking advantage of her. That's really what's you're saying?
    Being legally at fault and being morally deficit are not the same. I am not (and I do not think Rivington would either) saying that taking advantage of a woman to have sex with her is morally correct. However, offering consent is offering consent. You are citing morals in a legal argument.
  2. Rivington is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 3:00pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Osaka peach View Post
    Sorry for being annoying then, but the original purpose of this thread was that I didn't understand how fighting like Gracie did in this particular fight would in any way prevent a rape from happening, and weither or not I was stupid for doubting BJJ on the basis of staling fights is irrelevant to the fact that I was asking an honest question.
    Well, it is relevant because to some extent the onus of communication is on you. We have our responsibilities as well—that's why I watched for a few days before entering this thread, to determine whether the problem was linguistic, intellectual, or you just being a troll. Right now, you're trolling. This is clear to me as someone with two decades of experience on the Internet.

    And why do you have to resort to insults to make your point? So I guess manipulative men are alright after all, since you're implying that a girl that says yes out of manipulation is the one to blame, not the men taking advantage of her. That's really what's you're saying?
    I'm not implying any such thing. If anything, that's your opinion, as you claimed not an hour ago that rape was defined by the presence of violence. You're trolling via the fallacy of the excluded middle.

    This ****, and pretty much any thread you start until you learn to communicate, should be Trollshidoed.
  3. Rivington is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 3:06pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickapoo View Post
    Being legally at fault and being morally deficit are not the same. I am not (and I do not think Rivington would either) saying that taking advantage of a woman to have sex with her is morally correct.
    Right. The issue goes deeper than individual communication as well. Ultimately, if "no means no" then to a certain extent (barring abuse of authority, inebriation, age differences, etc.) "yes means yes." The best way to make sure that women say yes only when they mean it is to raise awareness of what rape is and what people's rights to their own bodies are. It's both self-respect for women and socially, equal status for women, that are key. That'll rob manipulative men of their emotional weapons, and also encourage communication to the point where sex is something other than bargaining that ends with an uninterested spreading of the legs just to get the evening over with.

    Btw, this is a difficult state of affairs to bring about when rape is seen primarily as the guy in the bushes jumping out at strangers, and when women like Osaka Peach argue that rape is only rape if it is violent. That gives men ammunition to get away with rape.
  4. Osaka peach is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 3:07pm


     Style: Boxing/JKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Well, it is relevant because to some extent the onus of communication is on you. We have our responsibilities as well—that's why I watched for a few days before entering this thread, to determine whether the problem was linguistic, intellectual, or you just being a troll. Right now, you're trolling. This is clear to me as someone with two decades of experience on the Internet.

    I'm not implying any such thing. If anything, that's your opinion, as you claimed not an hour ago that rape was defined by the presence of violence. You're trolling via the fallacy of the excluded middle.

    This ****, and pretty much any thread you start until you learn to communicate, should be Trollshidoed.
    So I guess that asking annoying question is trolling and is bad. But telling people they are retarded and stupid to make them feel like trash and act all high and mighty about it is alright. If you think I am so stupid then just quit responding to my posts. If you have 20 years of internet experience then you should know how it is to enter a community without having lots of prior knowledge on the subject. You're just bullying someone who just started out, you make me think of a streetfighter going around beating up random people only to prove he is the "****" I am humble about the fact that I am a newcomer, so why be so aggressive? just why? :5sigh:
  5. Osaka peach is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 3:11pm


     Style: Boxing/JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Right. The issue goes deeper than individual communication as well. Ultimately, if "no means no" then to a certain extent (barring abuse of authority, inebriation, age differences, etc.) "yes means yes." The best way to make sure that women say yes only when they mean it is to raise awareness of what rape is and what people's rights to their own bodies are. It's both self-respect for women and socially, equal status for women, that are key. That'll rob manipulative men of their emotional weapons, and also encourage communication to the point where sex is something other than bargaining that ends with an uninterested spreading of the legs just to get the evening over with.

    Btw, this is a difficult state of affairs to bring about when rape is seen primarily as the guy in the bushes jumping out at strangers, and when women like Osaka Peach argue that rape is only rape if it is violent. That gives men ammunition to get away with rape.
    Well then I guess I dated a rapist :sad4:
  6. Shawarma is online now

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 3:13pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We appear to be talking about different things here. I am talking technique, you are talking scenarios.

    In the case of A you are done regardless of what martial arts technique you know, although I've personally performed drunken BJJ successfully in the past (insert joke). I really don't see how any martial art but common sense can help you avoid this situation.

    For B, this has nothing at all to do with technique. No martial art will teach you how to deal with this and it is therefore not relevant to what I am debating.

    For C, you have a point, which I acknowledged. Weapons change the game completely. Please suggest a better alternative martial art for defending against knives and guns than BJJ.

    For D, your grappling skills are still incredibly relevant. If your boyfriend won't take no for an answer, that does not make him immune to being swept and brained.

    You seem to misunderstand me. I simply maintain that FOR THE SHEER TECHNICAL SIDE of rape defense, BJJ is an excellent choice, as most rapes culminate in some sort of groundfight, armed or unarmed. And as I already mentioned, BJJ players can defend backmount as well as play guard, so unless your rapist is into some seriously advanced kama sutra, BJJ training will most likely make you better better at defending a sexual assault.

    You disagree with this? If so, what MARTIAL ART would have better TECHNIQUES for this?
  7. Rivington is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 3:16pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Osaka peach View Post
    So I guess that asking annoying question is trolling and is bad. But telling people they are retarded and stupid to make them feel like trash and act all high and mighty about it is alright.
    Yes, now you're getting it! If you are an annoying troll, people will make fun of you. So—do not be an annoying troll.

    If you have 20 years of internet experience then you should know how it is to enter a community without having lots of prior knowledge on the subject.
    Yes, what one should do is read and watch without commenting for at least a week or so first, and also check other related communities to see what the rep of the community one wishes to enter is in the broader discursive field.

    I am humble about the fact that I am a newcomer, so why be so aggressive? just why? :5sigh:
    You're not humble about it at all. You use it as a rhetorical bludgeon in fact. But you're right, this thread, thanks to you, is too stupid for me to read. Not when I can go see The Fantastic Mr. Fox instead.

    Good luck avoiding those rapists!
  8. Kickapoo is offline
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    Sick double leg.

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 3:17pm

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     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Osaka peach View Post
    Well then I guess I dated a rapist :sad4:
    That is a very serious accusation. Keep in mind everything that we have just said. Did he have sex with you when you refused to give consent, or at any point while you were not able to knowingly do so?

    I am unsure how consent works within relationships with regards to being able to form consent (ie being intoxicated, so on and so forth). If at some point in your relationship your significant other forced himself upon you, then that is a matter I strongly suggest you bring with up with your local police force immediately.
  9. Osaka peach is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 3:20pm


     Style: Boxing/JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Yes, now you're getting it! If you are an annoying troll, people will make fun of you. So—do not be an annoying troll.



    Yes, what one should do is read and watch without commenting for at least a week or so first, and also check other related communities to see what the rep of the community one wishes to enter is in the broader discursive field.



    You're not humble about it at all. You use it as a rhetorical bludgeon in fact. But you're right, this thread, thanks to you, is too stupid for me to read. Not when I can go see The Fantastic Mr. Fox instead.

    Good luck avoiding those rapists!
    you're just a bully, plain and simple :stop:
  10. Osaka peach is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2009 3:22pm


     Style: Boxing/JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickapoo View Post
    That is a very serious accusation. Keep in mind everything that we have just said. Did he have sex with you when you refused to give consent, or at any point while you were not able to knowingly do so?

    I am unsure how consent works within relationships with regards to being able to form consent (ie being intoxicated, so on and so forth). If at some point in your relationship your significant other forced himself upon you, then that is a matter I strongly suggest you bring with up with your local police force immediately.
    Is being waked up by your boyfriend doing you is rape? As far as I know being asleep doesn't allow for consent. But I don't think any police officer would take this seriously at all.
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