TUF Heavyweights Finale - Dec. 5, 2009

**Mindspider** · Posted On: 12/07/2009 1:07am

Does anyone else feel like the Jones-Hamill fight should have been called much sooner than it was? It seemed to me like Jones was pounding on Hamill like a maniac for a long-ass time, to the point where he was looking up to the ref expectantly, practically asking "what else do you expect me to do?" Yes, he broke the rules, and learned a hard lesson in the process. It just seems to me that the entire situation would have been avoided if they had called it earlier, because Hamill was clearly unable to make any meaningful attempts at escape or defense during much of the pounding he was receiving, even before the illegal elbows were thrown.

**Hesperus** · Posted On: 12/07/2009 1:11am

Stopping it any earlier would've been an awful, awful stoppage.

Originally Posted by Raging Monkey

Wait, so downward elbows are only illegal in relation to where the ceiling is?!?!

What a retarded rule.

1. They're not "downward" if they're not going away from the ceiling. That's what downward means. Downward elbows can never, ever go towards the ceiling.

2. Upkicks are legal and headstomps aren't.

**Holy Moment** · Posted On: 12/07/2009 8:51am

I wasn't at all suspicious until after the fight.

Would you still have been suspicious if you didn't know about the deal Elite Xc supposedly tried to cut with Seth Petruzelli?

**Raging Monkey** · Posted On: 12/07/2009 9:40am

Originally Posted by Hesperus

1. They're not "downward" if they're not going away from the ceiling. That's what downward means. Downward elbows can never, ever go towards the ceiling.

2. Upkicks are legal and headstomps aren't.

1) Are you being serious here or just trying to argue semantics? Bringing your elbow from shoulder level to abdomen level is what makes something a 'downward' strike. It uses the same muscles to power it regardless if you are standing, laying down, on your side, etc... where the fucking ceiling is has no bearing on anything in the real world. Hence my confusion at the rule.

2) You are right, they aren't. But that is an entriely different conversation with a different rationale.

**galois** · Posted On: 12/07/2009 10:13am

Originally Posted by Raging Monkey

1) Are you being serious here or just trying to argue semantics? Bringing your elbow from shoulder level to abdomen level is what makes something a 'downward' strike. It uses the same muscles to power it regardless if you are standing, laying down, on your side, etc... where the fucking ceiling is has no bearing on anything in the real world. Hence my confusion at the rule.

You're forgetting about gravity.

**DaeHan** · Posted On: 12/07/2009 1:01pm

Originally Posted by Teh El Macho

It's been a long time since people discovered that the ability to be a combat sports athlete is not necessarily related to having a six pack.

Yup... Mighty Fedor can prove it.

**Raging Monkey** · Posted On: 12/07/2009 1:17pm

Originally Posted by sleigher

You're forgetting about gravity.

You mean the same gravity that adds the same force to elbows from any angle?

**Wolf** · Posted On: 12/07/2009 1:28pm

Originally Posted by Raging Monkey

You mean the same gravity that adds the same force to elbows from any angle?

So, if I have a guy in my guard and I drill him with an elbow in the top of his head using the same motion I would for a downward elbow while standing gravity is having the same effect? No, of course not. The shoulder to waist movement on my back has no effect from gravity whatsoever.

edit: in fact it could be argued it hurts the momentum as I have to fight gravity to keep my elbow moving in the horizontal direction.

**jeffphansen77** · Posted On: 12/07/2009 2:00pm

"Would you still have been suspicious if you didn't know about the deal Elite Xc supposedly tried to cut with Seth Petruzelli?"

I don't know. Mabe not. Before then I would've assumed that a full-on work was the only way to tamper with things.

**Raging Monkey** · Posted On: 12/07/2009 3:06pm

Originally Posted by Rudolph

So, if I have a guy in my guard and I drill him with an elbow in the top of his head using the same motion I would for a downward elbow while standing gravity is having the same effect? No, of course not. The shoulder to waist movement on my back has no effect from gravity whatsoever.

edit: in fact it could be argued it hurts the momentum as I have to fight gravity to keep my elbow moving in the horizontal direction.

No, what I meant was gravity adds the same force to a downward elbow when you are on top as it does to a horizontal elbow.

The point being if gravity is the reason something is illegal than *any* punch/elbow from the top position would also be illegal for the same reason not just a downward elbow.