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  1. patfromlogan is offline
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    Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2009 6:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Seriously, homophobia is sickness, not an opinion
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  2. victorweb is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2009 6:12pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Submission

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    I'm the Filmmaker

    Wow, I just noticed that after I started this thread, the moderator, This is Fake, gave me an infraction. I guess I was supposed to say more than posting the clip. So here it is. I'm the filmmaker of that documentary. I'm the guy in the car driving 1000 miles round trip to Michigan to find that model BJJ school, and drinking the beer at the gay pride festival, and narrating the film, etc etc. I guess that would mean my feelings were already shared in the clip.

    It's nice to see the responses here about what happened to that great guy, and how most of you don't condone such behavior. Unfortunately, 18 months ago many of you bashed me while I was making this documentary in a thread entitled "STRONGHOLD controversy," orginally entitled "STRONGHOLD is pornography." This is before the film was completed.

    I guess now you know better than to pass judgment on me and other people before saying such things. Cause look where it lead for that guy.

    Although the film does discuss homoeroticism and homophobia for a short period, with a lot of humor, insight, and a psychologist, it is certainly more than that. It's receiving great reviews worldwide from guys both straight and gay-identified.

    It was nice to revisit this site and see some kinder words.

    Vic
  3. Vince Tortelli is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2009 6:21pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fug View Post
    Seriously, homophobia is sickness, not an opinion
    Would you also say that racism or neo-nazism are sicknesses, not opinions? I'm not trying to troll (in this post, anyway) I would like to hear your opinion though.

    IMHO, the whole "alcoholism-addiction-Nazism-child abuse-etc is a sickness" arguement kind of lets the people who engage in such activity off the hook, you know, "well, I'm not a bad person-I'm just sick". But that's just me.
  4. Vince Tortelli is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2009 6:24pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by victorweb View Post
    Unfortunately, 18 months ago many of you bashed me while I was making this documentary in a thread entitled "STRONGHOLD controversy," orginally entitled "STRONGHOLD is pornography."

    Vic
    It is quite possible for a filmaker to be responsible for both brilliant works of art and steamed turd piles of crapola (Pulp Fiction/Death Proof) and Stronghold was most certainly in the later category.
  5. theotherserge is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2009 8:02pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Tortelli View Post
    It is quite possible for a filmaker to be responsible for both brilliant works of art and steamed turd piles of crapola (Pulp Fiction/Death Proof) and Stronghold was most certainly in the later category.
    "Citizen Kane" and "F is for Fake"
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  6. dethklok is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2009 9:28pm


     Style: Adult Cuddling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Tortelli View Post
    Would you also say that racism or neo-nazism are sicknesses, not opinions? I'm not trying to troll (in this post, anyway) I would like to hear your opinion though.

    IMHO, the whole "alcoholism-addiction-Nazism-child abuse-etc is a sickness" arguement kind of lets the people who engage in such activity off the hook, you know, "well, I'm not a bad person-I'm just sick". But that's just me.

    Alcoholism and addiction are diseases you fucking twit. The others may not be but the first two are.
  7. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/22/2009 9:46pm


     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Tortelli View Post
    Would you also say that racism or neo-nazism are sicknesses, not opinions?

    IMHO, the whole "alcoholism-addiction-Nazism-child abuse-etc is a sickness" arguement kind of lets the people who engage in such activity off the hook, you know, "well, I'm not a bad person-I'm just sick". But that's just me.
    I know you weren't asking me, but I'll answer anyway.

    I wouldn't say that racism or Nazi-ism is a sickness, though I do think they're the result of psychological problems. The least dangerous end of the spectrum of such problems being denial ("my life sucks because of black people") and the most dangerous end being psychotic rage.

    As for letting people off the hook, that only applies to certain kinds of sickness (e.g. Tourette's Syndrome) rather than sickness as a whole. After all, some people really do belong in a building the name of which includes "for the Criminally Insane." I am not saying that racists and neo-Nazis should be rounded up and put in the loony bin, but I am saying that my previous paragraph should in no way be construed as being supportive of the "addiction is a disease" bullshit. Addiction is a bad way to live (or, as was said in 28 Days, "it's a way to die"); AIDS is a disease. Equating those two characteristics (for want of a better word) is a particularly heartless form of intellectual laziness.
  8. dethklok is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2009 10:05pm


     Style: Adult Cuddling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Tortelli View Post
    Would you also say that racism or neo-nazism are sicknesses, not opinions? I'm not trying to troll (in this post, anyway) I would like to hear your opinion though.

    IMHO, the whole "alcoholism-addiction-Nazism-child abuse-etc is a sickness" arguement kind of lets the people who engage in such activity off the hook, you know, "well, I'm not a bad person-I'm just sick". But that's just me.
    The definition speaks for its self.
    dis⋅ease

     /dɪˈziz/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [di-zeez] Show IPA noun, verb, -eased, -eas⋅ing.Use disease in a
    –noun
    1. a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
    2. any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
    3. any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease.
    4. decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.
    Last edited by dethklok; 11/22/2009 10:09pm at .
  9. HappyOldGuy is offline
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    Slipping coal into stockings with a little sumptin for mom.

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2009 10:11pm


     Style: Rehab Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Tortelli View Post
    Oh good grief. A list of "gay friendly" gyms? Really? Why stop there? Why not a list of S & M friendly gyms? A questionaire so we can all be sure our gyms don't discriminate against necrophiles? This whole thing is ludicrous.
    And before the inevitable "shut your face you homophobe redneck teabagging birther" I don't know and could care less what the other guys/gals at my school get up to in their bedrooms, and I hope they would extend me the same courtesy.
    As for the guy in question, providing he's not grabassing during guard pass drills let him train.
    Since noone will let him train, maybe, just maybe you should consider that there is actually a need. Y'know, just sayin.
  10. Cybren is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2009 11:48pm


     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Tortelli View Post
    It is quite possible for a filmaker to be responsible for both brilliant works of art and steamed turd piles of crapola (Pulp Fiction/Death Proof) and Stronghold was most certainly in the later category.
    yeah i didn't like pulp fiction either
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