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  1. AlphaFoxtrot51 is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/25/2009 12:20am


     Style: Sambo n3wb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rivington, cut the ****. He rephrased what he said and it carried the same meaning. I got what he was saying, even if I disagreed with it. Quit arguing semantics and being a douche.
    :911flag: If you are lost, I will find you. If you are wounded, I will carry you. If you are pinned, I will cover you. If you are killed, I will recover and remember you. If you trespass against me, my countrymen, or my loved ones...I will kill you.

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  2. battlefields is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/25/2009 12:39am

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     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Wow, so basically you ask me if I had some stupid reading of your comment, then pout (like an infant) as if I did.

    No, I didn't think you meant that.



    Hilariously, you DIDN'T say that. You only now mention "predominately female" and moved from you being "pretty sure" you'd be asked to leave to now simply saying that they would be right to question your motives (not even that they would question your motives, much less ask you to leave).

    Anyway, my point remains: go to a yoga class, say that you are straight, and come back here and report whether or not you are asked to leave. Don't change your argument midstream and pretend you were saying something you weren't—just put your money where your mouth is.


    Here's my special supposition: you won't be asked to leave. People are very very used to straight men being straight and declaring themselves to be straight especially in situations where performing masculinity might be problematic. Groups of women especially often adapt to straight male behavior, even somewhat inappropriate behavior easily. (Not that saying, "I'm straight" is inappropriate—for the most part, people assume that the people they meet are straight, since most people are.)


    Just don't change your argument again.

    Your pedantry is pathetic. I've made my point, other people understood it even if they don't agree with it, you are either too stupid to understand the concept or just want to fight. Either way you're a bitch.
  3. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/25/2009 12:49am

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaFoxtrot51 View Post
    Rivington, cut the ****. He rephrased what he said and it carried the same meaning. I got what he was saying, even if I disagreed with it. Quit arguing semantics and being a douche.
    No matter how nice you are to battlefields, he's not going to lead you around with your pony getup.

    Also, look up "semantics." There's a huge difference between "being asked to leave" and having the right to question a person's motives. That's not a semantic difference, it's an actual difference—behavior and feelings of discomfort or suspicion are radically different things. Martin Luther King famously said, "Morality cannot be legislated, but behavior can be regulated," because ultimately he knew he was going to change the minds of few white racists, but he could get restaurants owned by those same people to seat blacks, no matter what.

    And some man going into a BJJ class and saying, "I'm gay" or "After this, I'm going home to my boyfriend—he's cooking me dinner" is very different than some man going into a predominately woman's yoga class and saying "I'm straight" or "I'm straight, but I can still wear this leotard" or "After this I'm going home to my girlfriend—she's cooking me dinner." They will surely receive very different reactions as well.
  4. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/25/2009 12:50am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    Either way you're a bitch.
    ...says the guy reduced to talking to a bulletin board full of dudes about his yoga hard-ons.
  5. AlphaFoxtrot51 is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/25/2009 1:13am


     Style: Sambo n3wb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    No matter how nice you are to battlefields, he's not going to lead you around with your pony getup.
    How disappointing. Keep it up and I'll post pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Also, look up "semantics."
    "Main Entry: se·man·tics
    Pronunciation: \si-ˈman-tiks\
    Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction
    Date: 1893
    1 : the study of meanings: a : the historical and psychological study and the classification of changes in the signification of words or forms viewed as factors in linguistic development b (1) : semiotic (2) : a branch of semiotic dealing with the relations between signs and what they refer to and including theories of denotation, extension, naming, and truth
    2 : general semantics
    3 a : the meaning or relationship of meanings of a sign or set of signs; especially : connotative meaning b : the language used (as in advertising or political propaganda) to achieve a desired effect on an audience especially through the use of words with novel or dualmeanings"

    OK...now what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    There's a huge difference between "being asked to leave" and having the right to question a person's motives. That's not a semantic difference, it's an actual difference—behavior and feelings of discomfort or suspicion are radically different things.
    Semantics. Both asking someone to leave and questioning someone's motives are acts based on a person's level of discomfort. Discomfort and adverse reactions was what battlefields was trying to convey. It worked...end of story. Don't make me slap you with my Intro to Communications, Interpersonal Communications, and Public Communications textbooks. If the meaning conveyed in the communication is the same, then all arguments over the wording are reduced down to semantics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Martin Luther King famously said, "Morality cannot be legislated, but behavior can be regulated," because ultimately he knew he was going to change the minds of few white racists, but he could get restaurants owned by those same people to seat blacks, no matter what.
    Dropping Martin Luther King into this in an attempt to make this response sound important is just ridiculous. To quote Phrost, "Masturbatory nonsense."

    I could put an inspiring Winston Churchill quote here and it would have absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    And some man going into a BJJ class and saying, "I'm gay" or "After this, I'm going home to my boyfriend—he's cooking me dinner" is very different than some man going into a predominately woman's yoga class and saying "I'm straight" or "I'm straight, but I can still wear this leotard" or "After this I'm going home to my girlfriend—she's cooking me dinner." They will surely receive very different reactions as well.
    How is that different? A whale walks into a bar and says "I'm gay," or, "After this, I'm going home to my oversized life-partner—(s)he's cooking me dinner." I think you're stuck on the different environments. One environment is at a gym full of testosterone, sweat, and guys (and girls) training. One is filled with estrogen (sometimes testosterone and/or progesterone), sweat, and girls (and guys) posing (and farting up a fucking storm). One is filled with strangers wondering how a whale walked into a bar.

    My point is...we understood what he was saying. You're arguing semantics. And you're turning into Tharuz...stop it.
    :911flag: If you are lost, I will find you. If you are wounded, I will carry you. If you are pinned, I will cover you. If you are killed, I will recover and remember you. If you trespass against me, my countrymen, or my loved ones...I will kill you.

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  6. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/25/2009 1:51am

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaFoxtrot51;2267199

    "Main Entry: [B
    se·man·tics[/b]
    Pronunciation: \si-ˈman-tiks\
    Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction
    Date: 1893

    ...
    OK...now what?
    Now you say, "Oh, I see that the difference wasn't semantic after all. I'll have my mistress paddle my balls for being such a silly-billy. But now that I know the definition of the word, I'll never misuse it again. I'm terribly, terribly sorry." Then feel free to burst into tears or something.


    Semantics. Both asking someone to leave and questioning someone's motives are acts based on a person's level of discomfort.
    No, actually, and for two reasons.

    One, you again moved the goalposts for your yoga-going hard-on sportin' pal. He said people would have the right to question motives in the second formulation, so he was talking about a general state of affairs not even necessarily an action per se.

    Two, even questioning motives is different from asking someone to leave for a simple reason: one can and often does question another's motives internally. That is, without behaving in any particular way visible to anyone else.

    Don't make me slap you with my Intro to Communications, Interpersonal Communications, and Public Communications textbooks. If the meaning conveyed in the communication is the same, then all arguments over the wording are reduced down to semantics.
    You might want to slap yourself with those books. (PS: I did graduate work in media studies and communications theory.) I'm not making an argument over wording I'm saying that:

    a. some generic yoga class is different than a predominantly female yoga class

    b. saying "I'm going to have to ask you to leave this class" is different than thinking "I wonder if this guy is here for sex! Suspicious!" and is different than even saying, "Well, that's nice that you're gay/straight, mister, but in here we're all about pajama wrestling/crazy positions."


    Jesus, "Both...acts based on a person's level of discomfort" is enough to make you declare that the difference between two acts is semantic? Fag-bashing someone to death can be an act based on someone's discomfort, and so can privately and quietly praying for one's gay son to be made straight by the blood of Christ. Are the differences between those two acts semantic as well?


    Dropping Martin Luther King into this in an attempt to make this response sound important is just ridiculous.
    Keep spankin' yourself with those books, pal. Clearly reading them has done you no good. The point is a simple one: having some sentiment and acting on that sentiment are two different things. Sorry you're so dumb that you can't comprehend a simple sentence and thus decide it must just be an attempt to "sound important" but there you go.



    I think you're stuck on the different environments.
    Yeah, maybe you can get the feds to pay for a helper monkey to read those books for you. I'm not "stuck" on different environments, environments make a big difference in the encoding and decoding of messages. In communications theory, messages are effected by environment and by feedback between encoders and decoders. (I'm sure Casstevens has made the introductory texts by 2009.)

    An environment of a yoga class, where confrontation is not an element of the class, and where women are likely to be a plurality or majority, is very different than a BJJ class. So too is the feedback straight men get for being/acting/declaring themselves straight (especially to straight female decoders) as compared to the feedback gay men get for being/acting/declaring themselves gay (especially to straight male decoders).

    So yes, in a yoga class where a straight man is a minority, partially because straight men have a lot of freedom in this culture and partially because women in general are socially trained to not get into confrontations with men and partially because most women in a yoga class will also be straight, walking in and saying, "Hi, I'm Straight VonTesticles, single male, and I'm here to see the ankles go behind the ears, if you get my drift," is a qualitatively different act than a gay man walking into a BJJ class where men are socially indoctrinated to demonstrate their manliness/straightness and to have confrontations sometimes and where most men will not be gay and saying, "Yoohoo handsome pajama wrestlers, my name is Girly McBallLick and I just love making oil check jokes."

    Or to really simplify it: how often do you think straight women harass adult straight men for being straight? How often do you think straight men harass adult gay men for being gay?

    Battlefields thought those two things would be the same, or close to it. I invited him to prove it, in proper Bullshido fashion. He responded by shitting his panties and you joined in. The stink is yours, precious.
    Last edited by Rivington; 11/25/2009 1:58am at .
  7. AlphaFoxtrot51 is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/25/2009 2:11am


     Style: Sambo n3wb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    smart sounding noise...
    I'm sorry...I can't hear you over the ad hominems that flood your riposte. You say you did graduate work, and yet you filled your response with logical fallacies. I'm not going to edit your post for you, I don't get paid enough as it is.
    :911flag: If you are lost, I will find you. If you are wounded, I will carry you. If you are pinned, I will cover you. If you are killed, I will recover and remember you. If you trespass against me, my countrymen, or my loved ones...I will kill you.

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  8. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/25/2009 2:17am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaFoxtrot51 View Post
    I'm sorry...I can't hear you over the ad hominems that flood your riposte. You say you did graduate work, and yet you filled your response with logical fallacies. I'm not going to edit your post for you, I don't get paid enough as it is.
    I acknowledge your....ultimate surrender.
  9. AlphaFoxtrot51 is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/25/2009 2:22am


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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    I acknowledge your....ultimate surrender.
    How witty.

    It's not really a surrender, but I'm not going to waste my time bashing my face against the keyboard with you. Every time I read a thread that you're involved with...it leads to the same thing. I'm not going to do it, so you can call it whatever you want.
    :911flag: If you are lost, I will find you. If you are wounded, I will carry you. If you are pinned, I will cover you. If you are killed, I will recover and remember you. If you trespass against me, my countrymen, or my loved ones...I will kill you.

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  10. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/25/2009 2:31am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaFoxtrot51 View Post

    It's not really a surrender, but I'm not going to waste my time bashing my face against the keyboard with you.
    Could have fooled me.
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