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  1. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/23/2009 11:03pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hesperus View Post
    **** Alcoholic's Anonymous.
    Agreed, that step among the 12 which reads "give control of yourself to a higher authority" (or whatever the correct wording is) is absolute bullshit. Furthermore, any sentence which condemns an individual to AA (including those sentences wherein AA is explicitly named as an alternative to a prison sentence) is a violation of said individual's First Amendment rights.

    There are plenty of rehabilitation programs which don't contain religious constructs, and a legal decision which implies that religion is integral to recovery is a tremendous danger to American jurisprudence.
  2. TN380 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2009 11:16pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's the **** thing about AA--you cannot be an atheist. Imagine if the court orders you to attend AA or NA and you don't believe in god? That's a trip back to house arrest or the pen for you.
  3. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/24/2009 12:44am

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     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TN380 View Post
    That's the **** thing about AA--you cannot be an atheist. Imagine if the court orders you to attend AA or NA and you don't believe in god? That's a trip back to house arrest or the pen for you.

    I never completed the 12 steps because I prefer to move toward a goal (hence BJJ) rather than constantly be reminded of drinking, however I did attend meetings last year regularly for about 6 months, have had a few relapses, but have been sober for about a year, then a year before that.

    Your notions of AA are wrong. You can be an atheist, it is one of the first things that was told to me at an AA meeting. The surrender to a higher authority can be anything you interpret as a higher authority, they even suggest that the higher authority in relation to drinking could be AA- the organisation.

    There are no links between AA and any religious order, which is an emphasized point at meetings. As it is the only proven method of "curing" alcoholics, to believe that your ruler, atheism, would not allow you to benefit from the program if you were so afflicted reeks of arrogance. Or James Frey-itis as I call it.
  4. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/24/2009 12:53am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    As it is the only proven method of "curing" alcoholics
    Haha, no. There's no evidence that AA works for the majority of people who give it a try.

    And of course AA is a religious formation. Yes, AA says it is not. It remains so. Lots of groups are X and swear up and down for a variety of reasons to be not-X.

    There are also actual non-religious alternatives for those seeking to overcome addictionórational emotive therapy works for many.
  5. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/24/2009 1:09am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    The surrender to a higher authority can be anything you interpret as a higher authority, they even suggest that the higher authority in relation to drinking could be AA- the organisation.
    Which does nothing to negate the assertion of many (including myself) that the "higher authority" precept is not only unnecessary for recovery, but also detrimental to the recovery of the individual. Think about it for a minute...

    Dave the Drunk has lost his internal locus of control, having given it over to alcohol. Now AA proposes that instead of giving Dave back his locus of control, the only true to way to cure him is to make him give his locus of control to someone else entirely.

    Perfect! Everyone knows that self-control is nowhere near as valuable and depending on someone else to tell you what to do.
  6. Beorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/24/2009 1:48am


     Style: TKD, judo, MT noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ok, i will probably get flamed to death for this, but here goes. The reason that many men are afraid of gays grappling is because of how gay non-grapplers treat it. For example; I work with several VERY open homosexuals. Open to the point that one of them just told me he had a sex dream about me lol. They are not athletes, and certainly not grapplers. But every time some of us will talk about the UFC they feel the need to pop in and say how much it turns them on. Would I be wrong to not want to grapple a person that says that? If I were a woman and a man told me he saw grappling as foreplay, would I be wrong to not grapple him?

    I am not saying gay grapplers are like that. I honestly can't imagine anyone who has ever wrestled/grappled seeing it as sexual. But it is the uneducated majority throwing **** back and forth at each other, while the silent minority just wants to shut up and train. For the record, I have grappled with women that I was sleeping with and felt no sexual urges. I am pretty sure a gay guy would be just fine.
  7. h_sh_m is online now

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    Posted On:
    11/24/2009 1:54am


     Style: Injured for 1+ years

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    don't worry battlefields, Rivington is a well known idiot.

    Anyway, that documentary was pretty gay. Kinda messed up what they did to that dude in NC, if that's really how it went down.

    Still, if I owned a school I would not allow my gym to show up in that documentary either. I mean not without some very strict stipulations that the filmmaker would probably not agree to.

    I can't judge the whole documentary from a couple minutes, but as far as I saw, he blasts homophobes for treating gay guys like they can't separate sport activity from sexual activity, then goes on to emphasize the tantalizing link between wrestling and sexual activity.

    I mean jeez I'm not an idiot:
    Why do guys like putting each other in holds and dominating?
    This is a leading question purposely phrased in a sexually loaded way. The respondent makes the obvious joke about the topic clearly being broached:
    Why? uh.. psychologically? Probably homoerotic. lol! No, I think it's just visceral. We're animals by nature, so watch animal planet that pretty much explains it.
    The interviewer completely ignores the second part of the respondent's answer and jumps on the first part.
    Though he quickly laughed it off, I knew I had found an intelligent man... [etc.]
    No dumbass, you asked a sexually suggestive question, he made the obvious joke about what you were implying and then stated his actual opinion. You completely ignored the second part of his answer and jumped at the first so you could continue on your decidedly biased agenda to prove that the activity is inherently homosexual (or at least sexual).

    Now I'm not saying it is or it isn't. Personally I think for most practitioners it isn't. But, goddamn man, have some basic journalistic integrity.

    It's cause of **** like this that I agree with the schools not wanting to be in your documentary.
    Last edited by h_sh_m; 11/24/2009 2:02am at .
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/24/2009 2:02am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shhhhh you are basing him and thereby hating on gay people...????
  9. Clockworkripoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/24/2009 3:45am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Muay Thai/No-gi Grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well as someone who's bi I can tell you that I have never felt anything sexual ever during grappling. Man or woman. In fact, sex is probably the furthest thing from my mind.

    However, I'm sure if people knew about me they would have problems, which I do worry about occasionally.
  10. Hiro Protagonist is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/24/2009 5:06am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by h_sh_m View Post
    *snip*
    My thoughts exactly.

    The doc's creator certainly has a very strange point of view on things.
    - Though this might be a generational thing as well; I have never met that sexual orientation awareness that is often portrayed in the media with people under 30.

    For example, one of my MA instructors was openly gay; can't recall this would have created any sort of awkwardness. Then again, he is an all-around gentleman and very discrete. - I know other gay people who are way less sophisticated, and I would not enjoy to train with them, no matter if it was wrestling, boxing or darn water polo. But that's not about sexual conduct, but about personal styles in general. I am equally appalled by the dudes who cannot take their eyes from the (female) hot blondie whitebelt.
    Last edited by Hiro Protagonist; 11/24/2009 5:10am at .
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