RyuKyu in Israel

**melk** · Posted On: 11/03/2007 12:54pm

Ok so I know that I started a thread on Bullshido here in my home town and talked some about RyuKyu before. The reason I didn't necromance that one is well, that is looked down on. It has been a while and I have plenty of new experience to share.

Their website is here:
http://www.ryukyukenpo.org/

I have not been able to go to the RyuKyu dojo, not willing to pay the fee, for the "starter" classes. However my neighbor has a son, about 16, who is learning the deadly arts from one of their "Black Belts" who also happens to have a BB in some form of ninjutsu, but he claims that RyuKyu is now his main style.

So I have had the chance to observe several of his classes. I am not certain but I believe that much of the training methodology comes from television, and bad television at that. For instance I had always wondered why my neighbor's kid, at 16, is always complaining about his elbows. Then I understood, part of his training is to hold 15lb dumbells and through full speed, lockout, straight punches... simply he is being taught to hyperextend his elbow, and to do it at velocity with weight.

All training is pretty much TMA, lots of Katas, stances, they claim over 100 techniques... don't even get me started on the ineffiency inherent in that. However, none of it is done well. Let me state, I once took TKD(Moo Duk Kwan) when I was a teen, I achieved a red belt(2nd Gup, which btw was a 3.5 year committment, BB took 5yrs min), so I have a little bit of experience in understanding what is and is not technically correct in TMA. Neither this black belt, nor his student, have yet, in my estimation, to do a single kata or stance in what I would call anything nearing technical proficiency(I would have failed my Yellow Belt test) if I performed a front stance or horse stance the way those guys do... but hey to each his own.

While I think most of what they do in training(btw it cost $25 an hour for private lessons like this which is preffered) is useless. For instance dodging a nurf ball lobbed at you(not thrown that would actually insinuate a decent velocity) at you from twenty feet away... if it works sure why not, I mean if you are happy, and it gives you some degree of actual fighting ability have fun. So I asked the guy(the BB) if I could do some live sparring with him. Unfortunately I had to explain what that means, no it not, "Go, Stop, Point" It is just "go" and one of us either taps or stops(I didn't want to say gets KO'd because I didn't want to scare him). Now let me state I wasn't sure that I would win, but I was looking for the workout and it would be an interesting test. He refused because he said that he didn't want to hurt me. To quote, "RyuKyu is too dangerous, and the techniques too devestating to spar in anything but controlled circumstances." At this I just laughed and walked away.

So now a week later he wanted to show me how badass his system was by breaking boards. While I don't think that breaking boards is anything too grand I decided that since it is happening in our courtyard I would come out and watch. To my dismay and later amusement he had a couple of pieces of 3/4" plywood. Now I was thinking to myself that if he could break that ****, I was glad we didn't spar. Fortunately for me, and most unfortunately for him, that was not to be the case, rather I was to get about 15 minutes of absolute amusement has he beat various parts of his body, including his head, against the plywood(the board were 3' by 3') in a futile attempt to break it. Apparently he has never heard the physics behind board breaks, nor the structural characteristics of plywood. His first attempt was actually a punch in which he hit with the wrong two knuckles and really f**ked up his hand.

So that is my honest experience, so far with RyuKyu, you make your own decisions about whether or not its bullshido, personally I think they got their BB's from a cracker jack box.

**fanger123** · Posted On: 11/03/2007 1:55pm

i skimmed over their "other MA" section. at least they got some of the historic facts right regarding other MA's.

they sure do look down on other arts, something i dislike.

shouldn't someone give them a wake up call?

**mad_malk** · Posted On: 11/03/2007 5:21pm

sounds like melk tried.

**melk** · Posted On: 11/04/2007 2:35am

Seriously how do you teach a lesson to someone who won't spar with you outside of their own tournaments(aka point fighting)? Whose black belts beat them selves silly(quite literally) trying to break a piece of plywood with his head only to blame their lack of success on environmental factors... the supports supposedly had too much give... etc.

A group of people are convinced that their art is the best, and so deadly they dare not actually spar with someone. My position has been from the start, that though while I seriously doubt that I would lose, the possibility exists that this guy could kick my ass(he difinitely has a longer reach, he is 6'5" as compared to my 5'11") and he is better shape, I am still about 15lb overweight from previous injuries and inactivity associated with an international move. I am certain however as long as some basic MMA/UFC rules were observed that I would not be seriously hurt or killed... as they claim to be the case.

My guess is that they keep their students stupified by having them collide their brain cases with pieces of structural plywood on a regular basis.

**Raul Perez** · Posted On: 11/06/2007 6:09pm

Being a practitioner of Ryukyu Kempo I feel obliged to reply.

The above critique is regarding the dojo founded by D'veed Natan. D'veed studied directly under "Taika" Seiyu Oyata who created the system known as Ryukyu Kempo. Oyata later changed the name to Ryu Te due to Dillman pawing the system off as his own.

From my discussions from some seniors in Oyata's organization D'veed was a very good practitioner and a very good Bogu Kumite fighter (a full contact Okinawan sparring).

Here are a few of his videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSGkFGDk9rs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUsN9NtSeN4

Ryukyu Kempo/Kenpo/Ryu Te was created by Oyata who was a full contact champion and trained under Shigeru Nakamura. Oyata was instrumental in revitalizing vital point striking and created his own unique brand of joint manipulation naming it "tuite" or grab hand.

Having said that I've crossed internet paths with D'veed Natan a few times. There are some things I agree with regards to his training. There are many that I do not, and I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

I'm not sure how he's a 10th Dan but from the review of his website many moons ago it looks like he created his own organization and through that organization was awarded his current rank. I believe he was between a 6th dan and 8th dan when he left Oyata's organization. Which, is very high none the less.

As far as the sparring comment? Not too sure why any of his students would decline a match. If what I heard is true he (D'Veed) was a damn good fighter and it would only make sense that he would produce a few good ones as well. To decline a match would probably indicate there is something lacking in the training over there.

My association is formed by Albert Geraldi who was Oyata's most senior student and was a full contact champion himself in Okinawa. We have an open door policy and most instructors at my dojo would suit up if the offer was put on the table. I have on many occassions. I, personally, have no ego and if you beat my ass I want you to show me how you did it. I will return the favor if I was the one whoopin on ya. That's how we learn and get better.

The sparring is called Bogu Kumite whereby the practitioners wear a metal helmet, somewhat thick gloves, and a chest protector. Striking is done from the waste up including head contact with either hands or feet. The traditional rules are there is a break when a clean shot is landed with such force that if the practitioner was not wearing the gear they would be seriously injured. However, we also allow on a more frequent basis continuous fighting breaking when the other person is being overwhelmed. Take downs are allowed but it really doenst turn into a ground match due to the equipment being worn. In, my opinion, that is the limitation of the sparring. But then again it is just a sport version for the art handed down from Shigeru Nakamura. Some ground elements are taught but it is extremely basic.

Here's a video I made a while back. Near the end is the bogu kumite version of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVu-oY9yuFM

A little comedy in the beginning... well because I'm a dick :5zombie:

Is Ryukyu Kempo superior to other systems? No. More effective if trained properly but then again anything is more effective if trained properly. I enjoy it and I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience.

Regards,

Raul

**dveed** · Posted On: 12/09/2007 7:43am

In Reply to this BS: Whoever wrote this (Melk?) has NEVER been to my Dojo. None of my Black belts have trained in "Ninjutsu". Anyone coming to my Dojo can put on the Bogu Gear and I'll be more than happy to beat them into the ground. I've NEVER turned down a "challenge" and anyone who remembers me from Kansas City will know that I've sent a lot of Dumb Sh**s to the hospital who were stupid enough to try. Raul, my 10th Dan is just as legit as Albert's rank. I charge $50 for a one hour private lesson, if, you are dumb enough to only want ONE. Normal price is $72.5 for Five private lessons. Since I've NEVER taught 'lockout' punches, I can only assume this retard doesn't know what he is talking about. Also, I'm 5' 10" and weigh 170 lb. I have NEVER punched plywood; only, things that normally break, like idiots. We don't do 'point' sparring; and, our tournaments are OPEN to ALL. They're, also, full contact, always have been, always will be. Am I arrogant? Yes. Am I violent? Yes. Do I enjoy hurting Assh**es? Damn straight.
D'veed Natan

**melk** · Posted On: 12/09/2007 7:56am

I am only going with what the BB I know says. If you feel that this review does not accurately fit your Dojo, PM me all relevant contact info and I will gladly show up to see what you are really about. If the guy really isn't yours, I will even bring him by with me so the two of you can work out your differences and him using your name.

**dveed** · Posted On: 12/09/2007 8:11am

02-624-1288
054-499-4461
# 17 Strauss
Jerusalem
D'veed

**melk** · Posted On: 12/09/2007 8:22am

Do you have any Zilberman Yeshiva students as BBs in your org? Being that he was a Yeshiva Bochur and I am also Daati I took him at his word. If you don't I will be bringing him with me(if he will come). What are the hours at your dojo. If I am wrong I will publicly apologize, and post the name of the person who made the BS claim of being from your org.

**dveed** · Posted On: 12/09/2007 9:31am

I have listed ALL of my BB's on the website. At the this time, none of my BB's are Yeshiva Bochers. None have gone to Zilberman Yeshiva. Eli Neumann, Yoshi Cain, and Yoel Gottlieb are the ONLY BB's I have in Jerusalem. All are REAL Ass kickers. Hours are 12 noon to 9 pm S, M, W, Th. Tue is 9 am to 3 pm (me) 6 to 9 (Yoshi), Fri is 9 am to 1:30 pm.
D'veed Natan