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  1. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/11/2009 9:41am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nomamao View Post
    1) I'm not sure what is going on there, but only once in 8 videos did I see anyone go for some sort of head control or actively attempt a leg takedown.

    2) In those two cases, the person attempting was able to get the takedown, even though their arms were "captured".


    I think that speaks volumes for what's wrong with their method of training. Not saying that they don't go hard, but that they are sacrificing more dominant moves in favor of the flavor of what they think is true aikido.

    That's just my opinion, though. Hey, it's definitely better than other aikido out in the world.
    You've got to give them credit for at least recognizing that there is a problem and making an earnest attempt to fix up their art and make it work. Well, I do at least.... :new_tomat
  2. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/11/2009 10:11am

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     Style: 柔道

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Full contact? No
    Aliveness? Yes but with a very restrictive ruleset and encouraging the less appropiate aikido techniques for the task.
  3. nightowl is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/11/2009 6:48pm


     Style: Koryu Budo, Shooto

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here is the Hatenkai Aikido webpage. Snooping around a bit the instructor claims a varied Aikido backround, but what stood out to me was his training in the organization calling itself "Shoot" (as in shooto I'm assuming) akido (webpage).

    I'll see if I can find any videos of "Shoot Aikido" later, but for now the Hatenkai training looks like mild resistance training- which is a huge step over most aikido.
  4. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/11/2009 7:11pm

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     Style: 柔道

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shoot Aikido was founded some years ago by Fumio Sakurai, Gozo Shioda uchideshi and Yoshinkan Hombu shihan.
  5. Dark Fire is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/11/2009 7:16pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I train in Tomiki Aikido and after training in BJJ the problem I see with Tomiki Aikido is that nobody really isn't sure of the proper way to do the techniques or even being able to explain the physics behind them.

    I've only done BJJ for a little while now, but where I train they explain how the technique works and the proper way to do it. Then you do that over and over again.

    However there doesn't really seem to be any of that in Tomiki Aikido. Sure, there is the kata, but you never really get a sense of why you are doing those movements or even how they work if they work.

    And I think some of the problem is the training structure and the competition rule set. For example in Tomiki Aikido you can not sweep. The reason they give for that is that they don't want it to turn into Judo. However my response to that would be if Tomiki Aikido really has something to offer and is actually effective, wouldn't people still use it as opposed to doing sweeps and throws? It seems to me that the Tomiki Aikido guys are really afraid of seeing their system become obsolete.

    So it seems to me that the problem with full contact is that nobody is really sure how to do the techniques due to a flawed training structure and a general lack of knowledge of how and why the technique works if it even does.

    In competitions you don't really see that many techniques being done. The reason for that may be the techniques themselves or the training. Another thing in Tomiki Aikido is that you are getting alot of really strong guys coming and doing stupid stuff like trying to run you out of the ring or running at you trying to slap your face to try to force you out the ring.

    I am of coursed bias when I say this, but the other Aikido disciplines shouldn't be talking about their techniques working until they can come to a Tomiki Aikido competition and do it.

    I would love to try to make the techniques more effective, but alas I do not know how. Maybe change the kata so instead of doing these movements that you never use in competition to something that you would in competition. Kinda like you are learning the technique to actually do the technique. What it is now is that you learn some movements, call it a technique then are thrown out into the world trying to figure out how to actually use it.

    Just my two cents.
  6. CoffeeFan is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/11/2009 7:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO/BJJ/Judo and others

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Those videos weren't full contact or very impressive. Yes they are using resistance, which is better then most Aikido, but I really don't see much value in that kind of training
  7. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/11/2009 7:30pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Fire View Post
    In competitions you don't really see that many techniques being done. The reason for that may be the techniques themselves or the training. Another thing in Tomiki Aikido is that you are getting alot of really strong guys coming and doing stupid stuff like trying to run you out of the ring or running at you trying to slap your face to try to force you out the ring.
    Isn't that really when you should best be able to use the aggressor's own strength and momentum against him? The old 'you push, I pull' thing?
  8. Dark Fire is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/11/2009 7:34pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If only it were that easy.

    One where would you grab? At the arm? It's not like this guy is sprinting at you. He has a good base and as soon as you grab his arm he is going to pull back. Also the competition is that one guy has a tanto and the other is supposed to stop from being stabbed and do a technique. However you can only do a technique with the tanto if he is gripping you with both hands. So the guy with the knife is stuck cause of the strict rules under which a knife stab counts as point. It would be nice to grab the gi and do something, but that isn't allowed either.
  9. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/11/2009 7:37pm

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     Style: 柔道

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So you sucked, isn't it?

    Stop whinning and pump some iron, then shomenate FTW.
    Last edited by DCS; 11/11/2009 7:42pm at .
  10. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/11/2009 7:44pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Fire View Post
    If only it were that easy.

    One where would you grab? At the arm? It's not like this guy is sprinting at you. He has a good base and as soon as you grab his arm he is going to pull back. Also the competition is that one guy has a tanto and the other is supposed to stop from being stabbed and do a technique. However you can only do a technique with the tanto if he is gripping you with both hands. So the guy with the knife is stuck cause of the strict rules under which a knife stab counts as point. It would be nice to grab the gi and do something, but that isn't allowed either.
    Oh, right - fair enough. From your description, I thought that you were talking about less-skilled but bigger guys just running in, flailing and pushing - yet still winning...
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